One year ago, so many chess fans were saying that my sister Judit didn’t belong at the World Championship in San Luis. Some wanted Ivanchuk to be there. Others wanted Shirov. In that tournament, Topalov ran away from the field. He got fans from everywhere. Most were cheering for Topalov to win every game. Some even considered him the greatest ever! He became a global hero.
One short year later, many of the same fans want to chase Topalov out of this planet. On the other hand, some want to hail Judit as the next World Champion because of the last 4 games at Essent.
Sometimes, I follow the games on ICC or playchess under an anonymous handle. I did that a few days ago and saw how some fans arming themselves with Fritz or Junior shouting “Topalov blundered” in the endgame against Sokolov. Why? Because Fritz and Junior said so. Most grandmaster could probably tell you in one second that the position was a theorical draw.
As I said many times on this blog, things are not always what they seem to be. There are always two sides of every story. While I am glad that the chess fans are so passionate about this sport, please try to respect everyone and please hold back the insults. Please feel free to express your opinions. But attacking and insulting posts will be deleted. Just in case if I miss a really bad post, please feel free to let me know. Let’s make this blog more enjoyable for everyone! Thank you!
Some people can’t help themselves.
Well, she’s right. People draw the most far-reaching conclusions from the smallest data samples. Topalov had a fantastic first half at San Luis, but to talk of anyone being the best ever from half a tournament is not only short-sighted, but shows an ignorance of previous great runs in chess history. Ruben Fine’s run in the first half of AVRO was comparable to Topalov’s run at San Luis, but few people would think of him as the best ever. Karpov at Linares 1994 was also comparable.
I think it’s a symptom of the internet age. People draw long term conclusions from short term data because they no longer have the attention span to wait for long term data.
Most of the commentary’s change sides to suit themselves…
One day on this side… and….. next day on that side….
Most of them don’t even know what the real issues are…
as for the abusers the comment they make expose what they are really like….young chess souls that need developing…”abuse seems to be of the times” written 1658 (almost 400 years ago)
hahahahah…Maybe some of us are getting old
I’ve been a judit fan more than 10 years.and I was very suffered with her performance in St Luis. Anyway I have some explaination about it.
If my calculation is right, Judit was pregnant during the St Luis at that time and she may not herself about pregnancy too.and it effected her ability to play chess directly.
Anyway, whatever her performance is I Always support her!
ARTY
Susan, you are very right here. The worst kind of people are those who change sides. How often in these posts I have seen: “I was a big Topalov fan, but now I support Kramnik because …. (and he recites what he has learned in the media whether lie or truth or propaganda). No one can depend on such people because they are liable to become traitors in every endeavor. No wonder that they post under anonymous. They don’t want to stand behind their words because maybe the next day the tide will change and they will switch sides.
I am a big Topalov fan but I am even a bigger fan of Judit Polgar. The San Luis tournament for me was an event with mixed feelings – the joy about Topalov win could not overcome the sadness of Judit loss. If they are pitched one against the other, I cheer Judit, as you maybe know from recent games.
I posted numerous posts here in defence of Topalov and a host of anonymous people flamed me with abuse only because I do not go with the winner and do not change sides. This will not change my mind and I still stand behind Topalov, as always. In my opinion, he is a victim of attack by Kramnik team and many of the members of the Russian chess circles. I like Kramnik’s play too and do not approve of the nickname Drawnik. His kind of play has its charms, too. However, I do not approve his underhand methods to achieve win at all costs. His behavior in the match was highly suspicious and only Topalov knows what he has gone through. This shows in Topalov’s play in Essent and in the photo in your blog where he looks haggard, sad, and tired. Topalov is one of the top players but he is also human and needs some rest and quiet. I know that you do not approve of Topalov behavior in the match as shown by your letter. However, you should know that there are many things that go behind the scenes and most are not reported. And also, much of what is reported in the media, is highly distorted. A big part of the posters here who flame under anonymous, have hidden agendas. You are right to delete all such flaming posts. I don’t like to see here posts like: “Topalov is gay” or “Topalov should go to the shrink” or “Drawnik should be flushed down the toilet”. Such posts do not have a place in your blog for which I admire you.
Greetings from Bulgaria.
Go, Judit, go.
Lyudmil Antonov
i think the fans are entitled to an opinion …. as long as the obscenities are left out… remarks like Topalov is looking flushed are tongue in cheek and attempts at humour…
on the point of amateurs being armed with Fritz, Shredder, Rybka.. if you want to see a GM busting the comp’s moves.. check out the chessgames challenge of World vs GM Arno Nickel.. the GM is way ahead of the computers there and I think this is simply because humans havea better understanding of chess (as it probably involves BOTH the right side and left side of the brain and is NOT pure calculation)
Thanks madame polgar for your beautiful chess blog ,
for your kindness,
for your modesty
for your wisely behaviour,
and for your love of chess
that you share with us (amateurs)
around the world !!
sorry susan can’t agree with you there, as nearly noone uses fritz or junior but rybka for analyzing the games =)
oh the rest might be true tho
Susan,
Please feel free to express your opinions. But attacking and insulting posts will be deleted. Just in case if I miss a really bad post, please feel free to let me know.
I participate in such open discussions for many years. You will always have people writing stuff which they would never say to your eyes (or to others) in real life. That is the nature of open discussions. With the above invitation you open the door for perpetual bother. People will expect you do continously clean the blog, because you promised.
—————–
Some people look at chess the same way they look at football, it is an emotional, not a rational matter.
Gabor
Susan,
Please feel free to express your opinions. But attacking and insulting posts will be deleted. Just in case if I miss a really bad post, please feel free to let me know.
I participate in such open discussions for many years. You will always have people writing stuff which they would never say to your eyes (or to others) in real life. That is the nature of open discussions. With the above invitation you open the door for perpetual bother. People will expect you do continously clean the blog, because you promised.
—————–
Some people look at chess the same way they look at football, it is an emotional, not a rational matter.
Gabor
>>Please feel free to express your opinions. But attacking and insulting posts will be deleted. Just in case if I miss a really bad post, please feel free to let me know. Let’s make this blog more enjoyable for everyone!
Deleting objectionable posts is not Susan’s obligation, but her right. She is free to delete what she deems objectionable and gives us the freedom to tell her what we find objectionable. Whether she deletes it or not, it’s for her to decide.
Lyudmil Antonov
“However, I do not approve his underhand methods to achieve win at all costs. His behavior in the match was highly suspicious”
Nice to use any excuse to have a go at Kramnik – even a post about how amateur chess commentators would be better off restraining from insults and hyperbole.
It will be great if Judit can stay in the top 10 players for the next years and have many more San Luis opportunities ahead of her. If she can win a world championship and serve as a model for more women in chess, then even better!
Hi Susan,
Perhabs it’s an idea to state your blogideals and reply these as a link when you are confronted with an ambiguous “kiblevel”.
Big fan of your blog! Go Susan!
Marc
Amsterdam
Two sides to every story? Yes, on a compassionate human level this is true.
No one has suggested that Topalov is anything other than an elite GM but his conduct has attracted condemnation throughout the world and by many informed GM’s. This is a fact.
Although people may start to feel sorry for him, Susan’s comments suggests that she does, the recent interview published on this blog -where he suggests that after game 4 he did not know if player Kramnik or a computer was something else!
Although not a GM chess player I know something about the world of public relations and he should be looking to distance himself from the events at Elisa.
Susan has pointed out that people can behave in strange ways when under such pressure and say things that they come to regret. Unfortunately Topalov has not adopted this line and seems to be persisting with his allegations.
Somebody close to Topalov needs to give him some good if unwelcome advice about his current image. Instead it is possible that he is surrounded by folk feeding his paranoi-this is not good for anyone.
Thank you, GM Polgar, for reminding people to control their emotions and remain civil. There have been some demeaning and quite insulive posts during the past month.
I’m very happy that those that wish to drag someone else’s ideas through the mud will have their posts deleted.
Many thanks.
Charlemagne
I agree that most use chess software (such as Shredder or Rybka) that is much stronger than Fritz to analyze games.
I think people put their trust into how these programs analyze because no GM could beat either (especially Rybka) in a match. Not even Kasparov.
I think the day has come (or soon) when the top human players will have to be given odds of a pawn and move or some other odds to even have a chance at winning…a draw…well, even that chance is probably not going to be possible within 5 years.
I mean this as no insult to GMs. I truly wish it were different. Yet, technology is simply evolving quicker than humans are.
I think this is why most chess players use programs to analyze games. Plus, it’s cheaper and easier to have a chess program that is a super-GM be at your side 24/7.
Is the chess software such as Rybka ever incorrect in its evaluation of a position if running on a computer of high quality?
I cannot say. However, I am quite confident in saying that the record of compters vs humans in, say, the last 3 years has not been very good for human GM’s.
I really believe that Rybka can beat the best two GM’s on Earth, playing as a team, against it in a match.
This is why people trust a programs “opinion” (i.e. evaluation of a position) over a GM’s.
Regards,
Charlemagne
@Serenity
>>Somebody close to Topalov needs to give him some good if unwelcome advice about his current image
Agreed. Obviously, Topalov needs good advice. Advice to go to a shrink, insults and insinuations about sins he hasn’t committed, is not a good advice, however.
Lyudmil Antonov
I’m a Topalov fan. Was a fan before his match with Kramnik, was a fan during the match, and will continue to be a fan as long as he plays exciting chess. I’m also a J. Polgar fan, and I hope she wins this tournament by a large margin!
Well said, Susan.
~kt
lantonov wrote:
>>The worst kind of people are those who change sides. How often in these posts I have seen: “I was a big Topalov fan, but now I support Kramnik because …. (and he recites what he has learned in the media whether lie or truth or propaganda).
>>
You have to be loyal to the truth, not just to one person or country, right or wrong. If new information comes in to challenge a previous judgment, then the intelligent person will re-evaluate the previous conclusion.
Topalov has consistently been more important to you than the truth in this discussion. You’ve gotten your facts wrong repeatedly and expressed disinterest when found out. You’ve accused others of lies and distortions, but never really gotten around to explaining what they were, exactly. To paint that as some kind of virtue, because you’ve stuck with Topalov even though he was wrong, is extremely misguided.
“I posted numerous posts here in defence of Topalov and a host of anonymous people flamed me with abuse only because I do not go with the winner and do not change sides.”
No man, they flamed you because you posted in bad faith. You called other people liars and didn’t make your case. It’s easy enough to say that anyone who doesn’t like Topalov is believing lies, but when you say that you have to try to prove it. You never showed what the lies were, or even that they were lies, you simply claimed to have some infallible source you never named that somehow showed Topalov was right, and that we should just take your word for it. This is arguing in bad faith.
If you admit that your defence of Topalov is based on loyalty rather than facts, if you admit that you’d support him even if he was provably wrong (which is what you seem to be saying in that loyalty post), then there’s no point arguing about it at all.
lantonov said…
Susan, you are very right here. The worst kind of people are those who change sides.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Geez lantonov, if you don’t even want people who dislike Topalov to change their mind, what the heck are you arguing with them so much for???
@Anonymous,
(……………………)
This is my answer to anonymous posts. I will not lose further of my time to answer them.
Stick your name under your post if you want an answer from me.
Lyudmil Antonov
@lantolov
“The worst kind of people are those who change sides.”
No, the worst kind of people are the ones who make up their mind once and for all, and then sticks to it, no matter what happens.
Blind devotees are outright dangerous. Luckily this is only chess.
People need someone to route for and a reason to route for them, so their will always be strong opinions. Just look at any sport. A little hard teasing or “ribbing” in jest, I see no problem with. It helps, however, that if you’re going to joke around with strong opinions at least add a smiley or winky face so people know you’re not just being completely rude or obsessed.
For instance, I like to call Topalov Toppleoff or Toiletapov in jest. Is it rude? I dunno. If you’re into sports, trash talking takes place all the time. If you met the person in real life, you probably wouldn’t talk that way to them, but somehow getting caught up in being a fan does that to some. What do you think? Should things like that not be said, or is it just fans being fans (as long as you’re just joking around)??
**I did that a few days ago and saw how some fans arming themselves with Fritz or Junior shouting “Topalov blundered” in the endgame against Sokolov. Why? Because Fritz and Junior said so. **
Indeed? I’m rushing to a booking office to bet on Kramnik in the match agains Fritz. Actually, at some point I thought that Sokolov blundered and Totalov was winning (after Kd5).
**Most grandmaster could probably tell you in one second that the position was a theorical draw.**
I hardly believe that. That position had a few nuances – for example, if after Kxb1 the white a-pawn occupied a5 square (instead of a6) Topalov could have won Kf6 Rxa5 e7 Black had an extra tempo capturing one pawn and pinning the other by one move. forseeing such stuff from a distance takes some time, though it’s easy for them even in a rapid game… Or did you mean a different moment?
“You will always have people writing stuff which they would never say to your eyes (or to others) in real life.”
The internet is a mixed blessing. You can communicate much more precisely than face to face. You can have a full conversation and have much more time to choose your words and look up your facts than you could sitting around at a chess club.
But you can also evade issues much easier than in real life, and this makes people mad. Take someone like lantononv again. In real life, if a person kept repeating over and over that people were all wrong and believing lies, he couldn’t get away with being so non-specific about it. People would pin him down and make him explain exactly what he thought the lie was. If he changed the subject, they’d just keep asking and asking until he had to answer, or look totally ridiculous. The internet is different, though. The conversation isn’t one continuous flowing whole, it’s broken up into lots of little bits, and people are constantly coming who don’t know what’s been said before, which makes it easier to evade questions put to you if you’re the kind of person who needs to do that. In that sense, it’s more like making a speech to a crowd than it is like a conversation.
You couldn’t have this in real life. A room where some people were having an interactive conversation and others were making propaganda speeches to the whole room. They’d drown each other out. But on the net, you can. People have different expectations about what the conversation should be, and it makes everyone testy.
The previous post is an example of a person who carefully chooses his words to pour unsupported accusations and lies defended by his anonimity.
This is the kind of posts that are best deleted without being read.
Lyudmil Antonov
Sofia, Bulgaria
Lyudmil Antonov
“The previous post is an example of a person who carefully chooses his words to pour unsupported accusations and lies defended by his anonimity.”
Your post is dishonest, Lyudmil. You called him a liar without citing a single untruth. You do this all the time, that’s why people think so little of you. You treat the whole Topalov matter as some kind of child’s game. Either that or you just don’t know how to argue intelligently.
I am reading and reading and I am getting the impression that the theme of the thread was diffrent.
PKF
lantonov, it is blatantly obvious that you are the kind of abusive and dishonest poster that Susan made this post to ask to stop ruining her board.
The fact that you came into a thread directed at you and then continued to be abusive and dishonest shows the height of either arrogance or blindness.
@Bort (family name missing),
How did you make the inference that this thread was directed at me?
Can you support the qualification (abuse) that I am dishonest? How and where did you learn that?
Or did Susan tell her herself privately that she made her post to ask me to stop ruining her board?
Because this is the insinuation in your post.
Lyudmil Antonov
Sofia, Bulgaria