World’s Best Chess Player Suspected of Immoral Ties With a computer
The chess world has been rocked by a scandal. Kommersant has learned that the Association of Chess Professionals is about to begin an investigation of suspicions that former world chess champion and first-ranked player in the FIDE (World Chess Federation) rating Veselin Topalov regular received advice from the auditorium during his matches. It is possible that, if the investigation goes ahead, it will use a video recording of one of his matches that is already in the possession of Kommersant. Topalov’s manager Silvio Danailov has stated that a suit has already been filed against the German journalist whose publication whipped up the scandal and that similar action will be taken against anyone who tries to besmirch Topalov’s reputation.
Pavel Tregubov, president of the Association of Chess Professionals, told Kommersant yesterday that his organization – trade union of sorts, to which most of the top chess players belong – is ready to investigate suspicions that Topalov, the world’s top-rated grandmaster, regular violates rules by receiving advice from his manager and trainer Danailov, who in turn uses computer analyses. “I don’t know yet what measures could be taken, but the problem has become pressing,” Tregubov told Kommersant. “Before computers, there was no sense in a leading grandmaster taking advice. The person giving the advice would not be a better player than the one at the board. Such incidents occurred at children’s or amateur competitions. But now it is possible that the problem has reached the elite level. And I think FIDE should take up the problem, possible jointly with the ACP. If there is weighty enough evidence, we will contact the federation.”
Berik Balgabaev, advisor to FIDE president Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, told Kommersant yesterday that, if contacted officially, the organization may organize an investigation of the accusations against the Bulgarian chess player. “But we have no right to undertake anything before being contacted,” Balgabaev added. “A special commission has already been established in FIDE headed by vice president Geoff Borg to address the problem of cheating, that is receiving advice, as a whole, and will make proposals to solve it. Believe me, we consider it a serious problem.”
…The legendary Anatoly Karpov supported Danailov. The 12th champion of the world told Kommersant that the accusations against Topalov of “computer doping” are “beneath criticism.”
Here is the full article.
Finally the truth comes out that it was Topolov and not Kramnik who is the cheater. Topolov was always a mediocre player until a few years ago – very suspicious!
And now we know why Danilov so quickly recognized the number of computer moves by Kramnik that matched Deep Fritz!!!
TOPLOV is a CHEAT and now we know it!!!
Are you insane?
While we are far removed from any conclusive proof and it may very well be that it can never be proven in a court of law the circumstantial evidence is starting to pile up.
One necessary consequence of all that is that one way visual barriers will be required at all major tournaments. Topalov’s performance will be scrutinized as visual contact would no longer be possible. It is sad to see that chess’ reputation of being a game played by gentlemen is rapidly being dismantled.
you will know exactly when you notice that Topalov performance sometimes close to 2850 and others to 2600
If the true goal would be to control potential cheating, it wouldn’t be Topalov who suddenly became the target of accusations. THIS, beyond reasonable doubt, still the Kramnik-Topalov circus, the fight of the two group, the “pro-Kramnik” and “pro-Topalov”. To investigate Topalov, while ignoring Kramnik’s total physical separation in a bathroom which he visited 18-20 times during each game, is ridiculous.
If ACP, or any chess organization would really want to take seriously the cheating issue, they would work out a method which enables to prevent future cheating, without involving any past actions of any individual chess player.
Gabor
I watched the video. That move my Danailov where he made a gesture of cutting his neck with his finger is definitely a signal. And then he immediately leaves when topalov gets the signal.
It was all in their actions. Their personality. They have been telegraphing that they are guilty for a long time. They have a deep inner desire to get caught.
How beautiful that an innocent bystander took the movie long before the accusations ever began to surface. But all the big important people who should have been doing so did nothing. Every move of Danailov should have been videoed in the lasted contest in Corus 2006. Why did not the powers that be have taken action quietly long ago.
The real scandal is that Fide did nothing.
Topalov and Danailov got too much into thinking how the Turk worked so well for so many years. It must have encouraged them to try.
Finally I see it with my own eyes. No more 2nd hand talk. I can decide for myself.
If I were on the Jury and had to vote on this trial with the evidence of the video just watched. Here is my vote. Of course I could be wrong. But this is my vote.
Danailov is Guilty as charged for sending signals of moves to Topalov.
Topalov is guilty as charged for receiving signals sent by Danailov.
That is the way I will vote. But I could be wrong. How do you vote.
Now what happens in Mexico and Linares.
First I do not think Danailov will be signaling the same. He will first want to check around for cameras. They should have filmed the entire Corus 2006. Every game of Danailov and Topalov with time stamps to check moves and determine at least part of the meaning of the signals.
Like I said before. I think Topalov cheated against Magnus in Corus last month. I think the final few moves, he received help. especially the very last move. Just my opinion however. I was not there and I do not have the proof.
Glad to see this entire affair is finally going to be investigated.
“besmirch”? I am so glad I am learning new words here! 🙂
Crazy. CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY crazy C-R-A-Z-Y Crazy!!
Well that video is far from conclusive. It shows some nervous mannerisms and that Danailov goes out of the hall to make a phone call. You would need more than that to convince an impartial judge.
Anyway on the cheating theory, you would think that Danailov would come into the tournament hall and make a signal with his information from a computer outside – but it appears that he makes a signal (if signal it is) after looking at the position for a while and then leaves the tournament hall. On his own, advice from Danailov (who is over 300 points weaker than Topalov) is not going to be of much help.
BTW – playing through this game it was actually Ivanchuk who made a bold exchange sacrifice in order to get a dangerous passed pawn, and Topalov who then grabbed another pawn instead of taking immediate action to stop the pawn. A reversal of normal events! Given that the position was quite messy, one would expect a computer aided GM to win the game (perhaps from either side) – but in fact it ended in a draw. So inconclusive again.
I think this evidence is WAY STRONGER than the Toilet Gate evidence and we have independent GMs like Nigel Short making the accusations also.
Topolav is GUILTY in the same court he used to try Kramnik. May he finally be discovered for the cheat he is! Maybe Kasparov’s final game was the result of cheating too!
A ban of 10 years seems the right punishment!
Short? Independent? Give me a break. Short would sell his mother if he can get 5 minutes in the limelight.
I wouldn’t mind to see Topalov banned. Not for this reason, though.
Now we see how big the tentacles of the Kramnik faction is. I have no doubts Kramnik and his allies are the biggest problem in the World of chess.
I think we should take a deep breath and slow the rhetoric. First of all, Topalov has been a great player for many years. He was third in the world in (I think) 1996. He wasn’t 2800+, but certainly close enough that getting there should not be impossible. Secondly, given his style of play, it’s not surprising to see large performance swings. He plays with fire continually. If luck goes his way for a few games he’ll have a killer result. If luck doesn’t go his way for a few games he’ll look like a 2600 player.
I think there is no purpose in doing some investigation. Barring a smoking gun evidence (Danailov confessing?) there is no way to prove anything and nothing positve will be accomplished.
Instead we should focus on preventing the possibility of all such cheating going forward. That will put to rest all the allegations.
Danailov does seem to like courtrooms doesnt he? Thats fortunate because it is likely he is going to be spending a lot of time inside them in the years to come, as he and Topalov defend a string of civil claims launched by GMs who have lost tournament prize money and opportunities during contests that Topalov is suspected to have cheated in.
I said about a week ago that the floodgates were going to open on Topalov, and now they have done so. Lets see what comes to light.
J
I completely agree with Gabor’s comment!
I wouldnt be surprosed if not only Topalov but many other elite players are cheating with computer aided advice. Bobby Fischer accused Karpov and Kasparov of pre-arranging there matches years ago. To get that competitve edge and elite status athletes have proven time and again to shortcut to the shady side and compromise fair play with any way to gain an edge
against an opponent. An example would be steroid use in sports especially baseball and football. I would think with these incredibly powerful programs the temptation to cheat to be the best is too great a temptation to rsist for some chess player at any level.
Some people would deny Topalov cheating even if he made a full confession.
Its not about Kramnik v Topalov its about the chess community vs cheating.
J.
It’s another bad effect that arise because Fide did nothing to calm all the parties.
Fide would have been better to make danailov giving excuses to kramnik during the toiletgate before the 6th game started.
Instead of that, the mess has grown up… So: players are doing what Fide should have done but didn’t…
Fide :is for what use? If someone has something interesting to say about Fide: it’s welcome…
Two great players are accused of cheatting… but one of them beheaved himself like the last bastard on earth… the other one beheave like a World Champion…
Guess who is who…
I hope that all that mess will end soon …
Excellent article. Well presented.
At the present time there is basically no chance that a cheater would do jail time. So where is the deterent? Well public disgrace. But the cheat always thinks he will get away with it and not be caught or in this case that it will be impossible to prove so there is really no down side. No Prison. No absolute proof. No downside.
If it were possible for me to cheat and become world champion and be rich and have all the women chasing me well that is tempting.
It is more funny than most of you can imagine. Funny because of my personality. I believe that it takes a certain personality.
Topalov and Danailov showed that personality in Elista.
How will Danailov and Topalov react to this new information. I say they will attack. That is their defense. Defend by attacking. Change the subject. Try to get people to focus on Kramnik. Play the victim role. Scream out that you should be investigating Kramnik.
Attack everyone and anyone. Play the victim role. What else can they do? Stonewall.
How many times does Danilov need to go in and out of the tournament hall – 20 – this is very odd behavior to say the least. Especially when it was during the most critical times of the matches. what they need to find next is the move order – that Topalov does not move until Danilov signals.
THIS EVIDENCE IS THE SMOKING GUN – THEY HAVE THIS GUY NAILED !!!
Topalov brought this on himself. He who lives by slander …
Also enough GMs have questioned Topalov that this needs to be investigated, the cheating allegation needs to be resolved one way or another. I don’t think Topalov cheated but precautions should be taken to remove any future doubts. Chess does not need this nonsense!
We’ll see what the ‘normal’ people will say about that video. I saw nothing worth watching. I think it will backfire.
Meanwhile, what are these UFO comments from Bareev. I think they had that “chip in the head” theory going on prior to Elista.
D.
Anyway, the chess puzzle is more interesting — it’s a draw, I can’t get the Black rRook off the A-line…
How can a video submitted by someone in the audience “backfire” ?
“We’ll see what the ‘normal’ people will say about that video.”
Theyll say Wow! It looks like Vesko is getting his moves from Danailov! It really is true!
J.
Mig Greengard’s now-gigantic Feb. 3 thread has picked up this story at the bottom of the comments. This link will take you right there:
Kommersant article comments
(It’s a nice feature that you can view page-source to learn the index of a comment and then attach it to the URL to jump right there—I haven’t gotten this feature to work for this blog.)
Color me skeptical about any significance to Danailov’s mannerisms in the video, at least for now—I have other factual info and opinions in that thread.
Susan, will you tell us what you think about the artice?
Thanks,
@Paris:
If you go to the bathroom 30 times for a game/2 hr, that means you are going to the bathroom once every 8 minutes. If it is happening to you just naturally, without excuse of having to drink as much water as Kramnik for some mystery “illness”, you must be a special person and in case you are not, do see a doctor quickly. Good luck.
It is possible to speculate on methods of signalling, but that video is insufficient evidence. It is not even evidence. Only if there is a pattern of behaviour repeated every move and the entire recorded thing is made available to the public can we accept any such thing as evidence.
There can be many low tech signalling methods (contrary to Bareev’s expectations, whether he was being sarcastic or not) but you at least have to see a pattern to decipher something for sure.
In any case, let us see what happens in Linares/Morelia.
If I were a GM, I would not agree to play with him, unless spectators and players are seperated with one sided mirror screens.
This is not too much to ask for.
How to cheat with signals.
Tongue in cheek.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3654
Only read this if you want a good laugh.
I just read a very funny comment by Paris ( Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:49:00 PM): saying
“it is common that I will visit the bathroom maybe 30 times during the game” …
But I am more interested in the behaviour of Kramnik, not Paris, and perhaps a better question to ask is: can anyone remember Kramnik using the toilet in any of his previous tournament games (in 1990-2005) as frequently as this was observed in Elista 2006?
Perhaps Kramnik was using his own persnal toilet also during the recent Corus tournament in Wejk? Or he really needs to visit often his personal toilet ONLY when playing a match against Topalov?
>>TOPLOV is a CHEAT and now we know it!!! >>
The rumor that someone might be going to trial is not exactly proof of guilt. Trials sometimes don’t happen and sometimes result in acquittals. If you don’t understand a point that simple, you should recuse yourself for the rest of the discussion. You have no idea what’s going on.
Gabor said:
“To investigate Topalov, while ignoring Kramnik’s total physical separation in a bathroom which he visited 18-20 times during each game, is ridiculous.”
You’re arguing in bad faith to say they ignored it. Also to suggest that this has to be revenge for Elista, when we know it predates Elista. And in bad faith a third time, to suggest that possible misconduct should be ignored in favor of tighter enforcement methods, as though that were an either/or proposition. You’d be better off sticking to innocent until proven guilty, rather than discrediting yourself this way.
>>Meanwhile, what are these UFO comments from Bareev. I think they had that “chip in the head” theory going on prior to Elista.>>
That was kind of bizarre. Topalov said the same thing in the ABC interview about Kramnik. Who’d go to that kind of trouble when low-tech methods are so much easier?
Regan, nice work! I think you’re on the right track here. Interesting how few actually went for that kind of exhaustive research.
With the ‘chips in the head theory’ and other wild conjectures, the conspiracy theorists are unstoppable. But they’re not new to chess either — yogurt, chair X-Rays, we’ve seen crazier things. You cannot defeat darkness and ignorance by a good argument alone (they need witches to burn), but it helps those of us who ‘really want to know’.
My suggestion, articulate this into a paper or a even a template for others to follow. Explain more clearly ‘The Methods’ part. Also tabulate the results in a more readable format. I think you’re doing the right thing.
D.
In any case, “Society prepares the crime, the criminal commits it.” -Henry Thomas Buckle
Whom shall we blame? People are doing their best to survive, and some people are overdoing it.
Match-fixing in cricket has reared its ugly head again – or at least some kind of fixing with people involved in spread betting has been going on for a while – someone’s been caught and the matter will soon be suppressed because too many people are involved. And perhaps that is the right thing.
And as for chess, is everyone so clean that he or she can point a finger at another person? Perhaps not.
Cheating and corruption may simply be manifestations of something deep within human nature.
You’d be better off sticking to innocent until proven guilty, rather than discrediting yourself this way.
Hey Anon,
Don’t you know Gabor is the “wise” guy around here?
Paris: As for bathroom breaks, in a typical game/2 hours situation, it is common that I will visit the bathroom maybe 30 times during the game
———————————–
Paris, are you pulling our leg here? You went to the restroom every 4 minutes and nobody called the ambulance? Did nobody ask you if you’re doing Ok? How did your opponent feel? The arbiters?
I’ve seen one case of someone ducking in and out of the restroom with similar frequency – it was during a party in my house, years ago. It turned out that that lady was on some kind of drugs (this is serious).
D.
ACP= Kramnik and his allies… ,quite frankly I don’t take this seriously.. this is the same Organisation which at one point was talking about chess beauty contest. Infact, Topalov should not bow down to there level and should not give thier accusations any attention. They are simply trying to distract us from Kramnik’s behaviour in Elista as well as put pressure on Topalov for his forth coming tournaments and finally feeding the anti- Topalov fans what they already ‘WANT TO BELIEVE’ and will try any cheap tactic to continue to do so.
This is easy…
All you need is a simple code:
A/1 = Hair
B/2 = Left Eye
C/3 = Right Eye
D/4 = Left Nostril
E/5 = Right Nostril
F/6 = Left Ear
G/7 = Right Ear
H/8 = Neck
Touch the hair and left ear you mean A6, etc.
Since Topalov is an accomplished player all you probably need is the beginning or destination square to give him enough of a hint. If it is very complicated maybe you will take the time to provide both coordinates.
What Danilov is doing in the video is signaling Topalov – no question. If they can dechiper the signals and correlate the times they can end the career of this fraudster.
We can only hope it is soon.
“ACP= Kramnik and his allies…”
Oh yes? More crazy paranoia, do we need that?
Here is the list over ACP members. It includes most top players with only a few exceptions such as Topalov. It also includes gentlemen like Zurab Azmaiparashvili and Georgios Makropoulos, remember those guys?? And there are several others who has been openly criticizing Kramnik for various things in recent years — for example, Alexei Shirov is a board member! As is Mikhail Golubev, who more than any other GM I know of defended Topalov after Elista. And while we’re talking official posts, listed as the ACP Coordinator for North America is Alexander Onischuk, member of Topalov’s team against Kramnik. Should I go on?
You are quite right about ACP.
In fact all this stuff seems to be coming from Kramnik associates – Bareev was Kramnik’s second in the 2000 match with Kasparov; while Short can hardly be independent – he is a good friend of Peter Svidler (they share a passion for cricket) and Svidler is a good friend of Kramnik.
If they are going to have an investigation into Topalov, they should equally have an investigation into Kramnik, ie the number of his bathroom visits (or simply time away from the board) before, at, and after Elista.
It’s only fair.
They have already done this! There is a book published that clearly shows Kramnik’s toilet was wired for the internet. There was a cable dangling from ceiling. Read the book for yourself – it is all independent investigation done by non-buddies on the subject.
After reading this book you all will see Kramnik is GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY !
> There was a cable dangling from ceiling.
What can you do with a dangling cable? Stick it into your ear and receive information? :-))
Where is the computer or electronic device?
BULLSHIT!
typical trick of the “soviets” and their friends. after being accused of
something, they do not know any better than to divert any attention and blame on to someone else. note. i do not say that kramnik was or is a cheater but his supporters and friends, especially sore loser bareev
are trying hard to put blame on topalov.
Topalov would not have published a book if it was not true. It would be a waste of money. Topalov’s investigation of Kramnik proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, with computer analysis and the dangling cable, that Kramnik cheated.
You need to read the book.
“Topalov would not have published a book if it was not true. It would be a waste of money.”
Can’t argue with that.
>>Topalov would not have published a book if it was not true.
It would be a waste of money.
Topalov’s investigation of Kramnik proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, with computer analysis and the dangling cable, that Kramnik cheated.
You need to read the book. >>
>>
Well, by that argument, Breutigam wouldn’t have published his article if it wasn’t true. Are you sure you want to say that?
Of course it’s a waste of your money to buy the book. That’s the whole point. Topalov doesn’t lose money on the book, he makes it. Are you sure you’ve thought this out?
All of Danailov’s charges were bogus during the match. How likely is it that he would have BS’ed us then and argued honestly later? We saw that his computer analysis was a number pulled out of thin air, with no methodology behind it, and no comparison to other GM’s. We know that electric wiring in the walls doesn’t prove anything. Your idea that he gives stupid arguments to the general crowd and good ones to the paying customers is charmingly naive.
We don’t need to read the book, you do. But read it with an open mind this time.
>>Don’t you know Gabor is the “wise” guy around here? >>
He doesn’t seem very wise. You mean wise the same way people say “that show was really BAD”, when they mean good? That kind of thing?
>>Don’t you know Gabor is the “wise” guy around here? >>
He doesn’t seem very wise. You mean wise the same way people say “that show was really BAD”, when they mean good? That kind of thing?
Ken Regan said:
>>Color me skeptical about any significance to Danailov’s mannerisms in the video, at least for now—I have other factual info and opinions in that thread.>>
One instance doesn’t prove it. Multiple instances go farther, but still may not be enough to convict him.
But it may be enough to act to prevent further occurrences from ever happening. Guilty or innocent, it should be common sense that players shouldn’t be allowed to be in sight of people with cell phones, open laptops, and the like.
I know we’ve beaten this donkey to death, but upon further review of this tape, I think I see clearly what’s going on in there. A classic ploy seen in Casinos near you — Danailov is just the decoy. Now, look at that benign looking grandma — does she look to you like she’s up to something good? No, I didn’t think so. Why is she so twitchy? She’s moving irrationally, then she’s making some quick signs with her fingers. Just look at her! Then she’s holding something up to her lips and talking. Yep, she is the one passing the moves to Topalov. But why is he looking at the board? I think I know why, but that’s in the next installment. There’s something very “sinister” going on.
D.
Meanwhile, I have figured out how to make links jump to particular comments. I had overlooked that the [a NAME=”c#####”] tag in the Page Source has an extra initial “c”. Here are directions:
(1) Go to the “Links to this post” version of the post, *not* the “N comments” version.
(2) In your browser, select View—Page Source.
(3) Find in the page-source the comment you want to link to (you may need to “Find on Page” a particular word in it).
(4) Look above it for an anchor”[a NAME=”cNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN”] field. Here you will see a long string of digits in place of my “NNNN…”, and the [ ] will actually be angle-brackets (if I wrote angle-brackets here, Blogger might confuse them with commands).
(5) Copy the string with the c and all the digits, but without the quotes. Paste that at the end of the current address at the top of your browser window. (Be sure you don’t highlight and zap the whole address—get the cursor blinking at the end of it before you paste.) Your window should jump to the comment you wish to link to, thus checking that you have the right one.
(6) Then highlight the entire address, and mouse-copy it (e.g., click on the highlighted address with the right mouse button and select “Copy”).
(7) Go to where you are posting your comment—if it’s in the same page, you have to “Back” out to Susan’s main blog page, then click the “N Comments” version of the page. Do [a HREF=”, paste the link, then “] type clickable text [/a] and done!
[Again, substitute angle brackets where I’ve written square brackets here.]
As a demonstration, you can get to my comment on this page above with the point I’m answering by clicking here.
dimi said
[nonsense to the effect that Silvio Danailov, the used car salesman of the chess world, was no more sinister than a sweet old granny.]
Yeah, dream on. Why not go whole hog and say Topalov couldn’t have been cheating because he was on the moon at the time?
>>ACP= Kramnik and his allies… ,quite frankly I don’t take this seriously..>>
Well, you may not be aware of this, but Danailov is TOPALOV’S manager. So all his charges can be dismissed just as easily.
It’s hilarious watching you guys both approve of and denounce the same behavior at the same time.
“i do not say that kramnik was or is a cheater but his supporters and friends, especially sore loser bareev are trying hard to put blame on topalov. “
…and so they put a gun to Danailov’s head and made him act suspiciously. Sounds reasonable to me.
The article repeats an erroneous claim. It claims that 37 out of 39 of Topalov’s moves against Anand in their San Luis game matches Rybka’s suggestions, but fails to point out that Rybka was first released in December of 2005, months after the game!
im tired of talking about catching chaters. i think singeling topalov out is not right. they need to completly overhaul there ways of catching cheaters and not go after someone whole probaly did nothing. this could be nothing more than a witch hunt because someone happens to be at the top of his game.
wolverine
“That move my Danailov where he made a gesture of cutting his neck with his finger is definitely a signal.”
I hate to say it, but you’re right in that it looks mighty suspicious…
From his position, would Danailov be able to see the monitor at all? I only know myself, but I might bring my hand to my upper lip if I was really trying to concentrate on a position. If he’s not seeing the monitor, I’d say his motions look a bit forced (but maybe I’m overanalyzing).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqa9Ht3L71U
Nothing evident, of course. But, as a casual card cheater, I must admit I’d do the same way as Danailov does.
Also, don’t forget he’s doing this repeatedly. For instance, it’s NOT A SINGLE PHONECALL. It’s a phonecall he systematically does in some circumstances…
Danilov seems like a nice guy to me. I can’t see the reason he would cheat after accusing Kramnik of cheating. Why would he be honest in one case and devious in another? That does not make sense. Danilov is trying to clean up the sport of chess – not make it more dirty. You all need to see the big picture!
Hey guys, mainly the anons — you can have a food fight, hurling offenses and nonsense at each other, and that’s Ok, but do you really want to remain ignorant retards?
When you think of cheating by receiving signals from someone, just try to think real hard what that means in the context of Chess. Chess is not like many other games when a single piece of information (fact) can help you in isolation – it is not like a card game when you need to know who’s got the Jack, or whether the other guys has a stronger pair than you… Here you need to understand the intent behind a move, the real key to which is several moves down the line.
Anyway, look at what this guy Regan is doing – I think we can attack the question of cheating in his way and draw better conclusions than watching someone on camera rubbing his body parts…
D.
What are you saying??? Acording to sources Topalov got 37 moves out of 39 from Rybka! No context required. He didn’t need to do anything but move the pieces! duh!
And as far as Kramnik is concerned he was connected to the internet in his bathroom so he could get all the “context” he wanted.
Then what about the Karpov – Korchnoi Championship in the Phillipines? Korchnoi team thought he was getting information by what flavor yogurt was delivered.
Don’t be NAIVE here!!!
” Here you need to understand the intent behind a move, the real key to which is several moves down the line. “
Topalov is an excellent player – he, as all players at this level, understands very well the intents behind a move.
If the success of a move M is dependent on finding a supermove S later down the line, then it’s clearly a risky business to signal it. So, would a signal be of any use at all? Dunno. Hopefully, there are no signals and there is no cheating.
Here is a *theory* of how signalling a move could help, though: An assistant could signal “The computer likes this move best”. The player could then a) confidently play the move since it was what he was planning to do anyway, b) successfully infer why the computer prefers the signalled move, or c) reject the move because he’s not confident he will understand how to play the position without further cues.
This is a *general theory*, please feel free to refute it.
rdwn
Is it possible to cheat at chess using visual cues?
If you think the answer is no, go and sit in the corner and dont come out again until you have grown more sense than a down syndrome affected chihuahua.
It doesnt require you to devise a suitable method of cheating on a random blog off the top of your hat for you to believe it.
Topalov & Danailov have had years in each others company to perfect a technique which is more than sophisticated enough to convey moves.
The question isnt about whether its possible, its about whether they actually did it.
J.
>Anon 1: Acording to sources Topalov got 37 moves out of 39 from Rybka
To you my friend I wanted to say that I do not take lightly what I said about the ‘ignorant retard’, but there is no other way to describe it — didn’t you learn that Rybka wasn’t yet released at that time. I mean, what separates people from lower life is that one specie has the sense of embarrassment and the other doesn’t…
To rdwn: I agree. The other evening Fritz liked a move I did (after experimenting some) and still have no idea why. You say the top GM’s know a lot more – true, but even they cannot beat the computer (unfortunately). Plus, the computers differ in their assessment too. The other day Anand resigned on move 35 against Topalov. Both agreed, hard to play from that position, but Topalov pointed out that finishing it off against a computer is a completely different matter. And yes, they discovered that there is a strong counter play. That doesn’t mean that a human could have seen it…
J: The question isnt about whether its possible, its about whether they actually did it.
Indeed, that’s the right question. And here is where some thinking is needed. What kind of information can you truly transmit In the casino it is simpler – who’s got the Ace of Spades, or whether the impasse can pass on the left, that sort of thing – factual information can easily be transmitted in many (almost) undetectable manners. But an intention of play – unless you go and hide somewhere and get a good overview of the position, I do not think that a human can cope with just something like ‘take Bishop’, or ‘move Knight’…
D.
@Dimi:
In answer to the last point you raised, I believe it is possible to unambiguously indicate a move with precisely 2 kinds of signals (think binary) repeated 12 times – you just need to transmit the starting and ending squares in a move – 1 out of 8=2^3 possible coordinates, four times – and you need 2 more signals maybe to indicate the beginning and the end of transmission.
All these can be done in a very unobtrusive manner, and you can indeed perfect this if you have been doing it for years, as someone pointed out.
It may be possible that it is more than one player who is into such things, so targeting just one player will not solve the problem.
And what was the other player doing in that bathroom?
As long as there is a strong incentive to win – money, “honour”, status, power, everything that comes with winning – people will cheat as they have cheated throughout all of human history.
It is in our blood. The nearest thing we have had to an utterly incorruptible person in chess was Bobby Fischer, and people thought he was crazy. So you see, “normal” people, mediocre people, who make up the majority of mankind in this democratic world and will inherit this earth, will resort to deception to win what they cannot win otherwise.
We are all corrupt – we call people corrupt when it is someone other than us. You might be Christian (I am not) but Christ would have challenged us, saying, if there is one person among us who has never sinned, that person should get the chance to chuck a stone at Topalov or Kramnik first.
And we would all flunk that test.
I am a mediocre club level player, perhaps even beginner level. I used to be excited about what happened at the level of champions, but now I will stop bothering.
I will be happy producing an unknown brilliancy that no one will ever take note of, because I am past the age to be labelled a prodigy and to be made much of, and anyway my opponents usually don’t have much of a clue about chess.
I don’t give a damn if some idiots cheat and squabble over titles and prizes.
I play for my relaxation, and while as a mathematician I can devise a method to signal and cheat, using a computer will not give me the satisfaction of playing.
I am grateful that I don’t have to play chess for a living. But yet my disappointment is so deep you cannot even begin to understand it unless you experience it firsthand.
It is bad enough that I find it hard to gather funds to keep my amateur chess club running, and I understand the plight of lower level chess coaches who try to make a living at chess, sometimes by conning people or by creating a need.
I will not brand myself a “gentleman” and look down upon other people because they are just trying to live.
And I have no quarrel with Topalov or Kramnik. Let them do what they’ve got to do.
I wonder only,who is the guy,that has this video taped and why?
KGB no doubt. They like to video tape anyone doing anything. I bet most of us are on video tape and we don’t even know it.