Chessdom:
Kamsky – Topalov in Lviv
15.03.2008
Alexander Chernenko, Gata Kamsky’s manager, claims in an interview with Russian “Sport Express” that match Kamsky-Topalov will take place in Lviv, Ukraine, for a prize fund “several times bigger” than 250.000 USD offered from Bulgarian sponsors.
As Chernenko told Yuri Vasiliev, the deal is “99.9% certain”, but he will publicly announce the details upon the bank guarantees arrival. Ukranian Chess Federation and Lviv City administration will coordinate the event.
Danailov: I hope the offer is real
13.04.2008
Following the news about Lviv’s 750.000 USD offer for Kamsky-Topalov match, Bulgarian website sportni.bg asked Silvio Danailov to comment on the situation. “We are ready to play in Lviv”, Danailov said, “It would be a pleasure, but first I want to make sure that money is on the table. It is still somewhat of mystery to me, because I know how hard is to secure bank guarantees”.
ChessBase:
Yury Vassiliev tells us that the US $750,000 prize fund is “clean”, i.e. taxes and the 20% fee to FIDE will not be taken out of the prize money. In the meantime friends in the Ukraine have expressed doubts on the reality of the offer. Even top Lviv officials do not know of the match or of private sponsors. “The city of Lviv will not put up the money, this is 1000% sure”, our contact told us. We will wait and see. First details – and doubts.
One way or another, I hope that this match will happen. This would be in the best interest of chess. The problem that I fear is if the fireworks off the board have already started many months before the actual match, what will happen during the match? Will the focus be on Rustam Kamsky and Danailov instead Topalov and Gata Kamsky?
Quite honestly I fail to see why Lviv would bid even one cent for the upcoming match, let alone $750 000. It’s not a WC title match, no Ukrainian is involved, there is no mention anywhere regarding who exactly is coming up with the money, $750 000 is completely unnecessary as a much lower amount would get the match, etc, etc. Then, why a deadline was missed? If finding $750 000 was a problem, why not bid a lower amount?
Yuriy Vasiliev is certainly well informed journo, but from outside this whole Lviv story looks like some sort of a scam.
Posted by osbender on chessninja
This whole thing is ridiculous. If there is no other firm offer except from Bulgaria, then Kamsky should just play there. Why is he whinning so much about it? If he has sponsors with bigger prize funds then fine, but looks like he doesn’t.
Why are Kramnik, Topalov, Kamsky such a crybabies? When did Anand ever whine about something and requested some special status? NEVER! Did he cry when he had to play a fresh Karpov after the exhausting FIDE WCC in 1998? NO. Did he complain when he couldn’t play with Kasparov for the PCA title because his obligations to FIDE (in 1999 or 2000)? NO. Did he complain when he was left out of the Prague agreement? NO. Does he complain that he first must play Kramnik (who was give a special status in this cycle)? NO. Does he complain that he won’t automatically keep the title in case of a tie like all previous title holders did? NO.
You see, THATS a REAL proffesional CHESS PLAYER, not others crybabies. It will all be decided on the board.
So for chess and justice’s sake I hope Anand kicks Kramnik’s behind and that Kamsky will “negotiate” so far that FIDE will just kick him out of the cycle, then his replacement – Shirov – kicks Topalovs behind to get the world championship match that he deserved long time ago.
I really hopes something like this happens, because chess will be transformed into a circus if we will see another Kramnik vs. Topalov match.
Anonymous #2, your words are all true, except one. Anand can’t ask to automatically keep the title in case of a tie in the upcoming WCC match, because he himself broke this tradition: in the 1998 FIDE WCC the match between Karpov (Champion) and him (Challenger) ended in a tie, but continued with rapid playoffs. I know, Anand lost, but that’s another story.
Apart from this, you’re right: Anand is a REAL professional CHESS PLAYER and World Champion, better than Kramnik, Topalov and even Kasparov and Karpov.
Rustam vs. Danilov boxing match shuld be on pay per view!
A2:
“Does he complain that he first must play Kramnik (who was give a special status in this cycle)? NO.”
Those rules are set by FIDE and tradition. Current champion gets a rematch. Kramnik never lost a WCC ‘match’ to Anand, and in my view, Anand is not a true WCC until he defeats, by match, the current challenger. Anand’s status as WCC is flawed, at best.
So quit pounding the table with your silly assertions that Anand is some greater-that-ever sportsmen. Like EVERY OTHER PROFESSIONAL PLAYER, he is interested in one thing – himself. You’re a fool to think otherwise.
I hope Kamsky doesn’t play and just forfeits the match.
Kamsky is such a whining little baby and then his wacko father goes off on how Kasparov is a KGB spy.
The world wants to see the Kramnik-Topalov rematch. Nothing less.
A1: “Quite honestly I fail to see why Lviv would bid even one cent for the upcoming match…”
May be any rich business or private guy who loves chess and/or who wants to promote his business…
A2: You totally miss the point. Anand is a professional chessplayer as all the others you mentioned; that means he is interested in the MONEY first. BTW he didn’t have to qualify for the 2007 WCC in Mexico where he got his title, while Kramnik defeated Kasparov, Leko and Topalov in a row which makes him the true champion IMO. There shouldn’t have been a WCC arranged in 2007 in Mexico with “invited” players or the loosers of San Louis 2005 in the first place. Every World Champion should get his 2-3 years time in which he doesn’t have to defend his title and can make use of his title as was in the good old days. It was not justified to force Kramnik to play for the title (which he already owned and had recently won against Topalov roughly half a year before) so soon again in 2007, and even more against a bunch of “unqualified loosers”. Unfortunately, FIDE had arranged this event long before and couldn’t step back as would have been appropriate. Kramnik was willing to play in Mexico and with this he “saved” this event and the organizers.
It was therefore more than justified to give him a rematch at least.
You can’t compare 1998-2004 FIDE world championship with other world championships. Anand vs. Kramnik will be the first WCC match where the title holder doesn’t automatically keep the title in case of a tie. The only other occasion was Kramnik vs. Topalov but this was logical, because they were both champions and a definitive decision was needed. Otherwise we still would have two champions wouldn’t we?
You are entitled to have your opinion if the title can be won only in a match and not the tournament, but talking that he didn’t qualify for the tournament??? Being in the top 3 for decade and a half is enough to qualify for ANY tournament in my book. Besides when did Kramnik qualify for anything? Answer that.
But you really all missed my point. My point was that Anand never complained and requested anything. He is confident to settle it all on the board (like it is supposed to be) and leaves politics for others. And in case he loses, he won’t complain about it and requested some rematch right, or some special status. Guaranteed!
your three statements are all wrong:
1) Anand himself says that his FIDE WCC 2000 has the same value of the Classical WCC:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2007/03/anand-speaks-about-various-issues.html#links
2) You said that rating is enough to qualify for ANY tournament. So, Kramnik qualified for Classical WCC 2000 Because of his Elo.
3) After WCC 2007, Anand complained and requested for better conditions in the 2008 WCC (retaining title in case of a tie, neutral venue). Then, after negotiations with FIDE and Kramnik, he accepted and retreated his requests. THIS makes him a gentleman.
Of course he wanted better conditions and more money (who doesn’t) but he is not a crybaby like others.
Both Topalov and Kramnik signed before the match that the losser is out of the Mexico tournament and that the winner will compete there and put his title on the line. But soon after the match Topalov started crying. Kramnik also started crying how “his holly title” can’t be won in a tournament and that the Mexico tournament should only determine who has the right to play with him. He was smarter than Topalov because he started crying before the tournament and basically forced FIDE to give him a status of first challenger (if FIDE wouldn’t have given in, he would have never appeared in Mexico and we would be at square one again). Kamsky also knew that the World cup winner will have to play with Topalov, but now he cries how he should directly play with Anand for the title. At first I was on his side about the location of the match and that FIDE should extend the deadlines so that he has time to find the sponsors, but it’s obviously that he couldn’t find them, so he should stop crying now and go to Bulgaria.
They are all crybabies. Thats what I’m talking about. When did Anand cry? Give one example.
P.S.: I’m not a big fan of Anand, I never was a fan of any player, but he has my support now (for the reasons give above).
I agree with you, Anand is not a crybaby. I said that is untrue that he never complained, as you said in your previous post. In fact, we are on the same side: in the upcoming WCC match I’ll support Anand, because I consider him a better World Champion, as I said earlier.
P.S. Can you sign your posts with a name, even fictional? It’s difficult to distinguish you from the other anonymouses.
My posts were he 2nd, 8th, 10th and this one.
One of my responses was to the 7th poster who said that Anand didn’t qualify for Mexico.
Anand qualified 5 times to play for the title (1995, 1998, 2000, 2005, 2007) and Kramnik didn’t do it even once.
Anand may have qualified for San Luis by his rating and to Mexico as a runner-up from San Luis, but those were writen rules (and the rules weren’t written to accomodate him, if you know what I mean), on the other hand Kramnik “qualified” to play Kasparov AGAINST all rules. Kramnik lost to Shirov, but still got to play Kasparov.
So who is “invited” player? Who is the “unqualified loser”? And who is the “true champion”?
ebutaljib
Quite correct, ebutuljib.
It is astounding that with all the historical evidence there are still people brainwashed by Kramnik’s line (or is it just his ‘agents’ posting to the blogs?).
To recap what is pretty obvious from the evidence:
Kasparov broke with FIDE in 1993. Given the way Campomanes had been acting, plus previous illegalities (eg cancelling of the first K-K match in 1985), FIDE could not claim any longer to be legal custodian of the Title. Overall, given that Kasparov defended against FIDE qualifier Short; and also qualifier Anand in 1995, he has to be recognised as Champion from 1993 to 2000.
This is the Title Kramnik took as an unqualified challenger in 2000. Kramnik did not ‘own’ this Title. It was by general public recognition that he held it. However, such public recognition comes with the unspoken implication that it must be defended properly. This Kramnik signally failed to do.
He insisted on a qualifier (Dortmund 2002) so stupid that the only conclusion one can come to was that it was almost certainly deliberately designed that way so that Kasparov would find it unacceptable to play in. In other words, this was a deliberate intent on Kramnik’s part to avoid having to play Kasparov again.
Upon Kasparov’s perfectly reasonable refusal to play in this, the Prague agreement was eventually signed. However, despite Kramnik’s repeated assurances that he would honour this, he did not (by announcing he would refuse to play the winner of a Kasparov – Kasimndzhanov match).
Therefore Kramnik simply cannot be recognised as World Champion after 2002.
Nor can FIDE’s ridiculous knockouts from 1997 to 2004 be recognised as World Championship events.
The Title is therefore vacant from 2002 to 2005.
In 2005 FIDE finally did come up with an event (San Luis) that, though imperfect, could be recognised as a World Championship, and was so at the time by all the top players except Kramnik, who though invited, refused to play in it.
Thus Topalov is World Champion 2005-6, and Kramnik is given a match as an unqualified challenger in 2006 at Elista.
In signing for this, Kramnik agreed that he would play in the following Mexico event if he won, and that he would have no special privileges if he lost, or didn’t win in Mexico.
Unfortunately, Topalov’s ridiculous accusations, plus the forfeit, at Elista gave Kramnik a big sympathy vote he did not deserve.
After Elista, Kramnik used this to blackmail an unqualified challenge to the Mexico winner if it was not him.
This will be the THIRD time that Kramnik has had an unqualified for challenge to the Title!
Anand has never engaged in such underhand dealings.
For justice and the good of chess, one certainly has to hope that Kramnik meets with defeat in this match.
“Ebutaljib” is obviously a fellow Indian countryman of Anand and completely biased in this discussion.
No matter where your preferences are, there have to be acknowledged 2 WCC titles from 1993 – 2006; the “moral” one with Kasparov/Kramnik and the “official” one with all the FIDE-Champs.
In 2006 there was finally a re-unification match and it is clear who was the one and only champion at that time in 2006 (Kramnik).
Talking about Kramnik’s right to play Kasparov in 2000: Although Kramnik did not qualify for the Kasparov-Match in 2000 – Kramnik was simply chosen by Kasparov as a challenger which is common business in Boxing for example – he was simply the strongest player at that time apart from Kasparov; and Kasparov as the “Classic” Titleholder could choose his challenger, so what; Kramnik was lucky in being chosen, so what; he simply defeated Kasparov and inherited the “Classic” Title this way. Period.
The real misery is the incompetency of FIDE to organize a WCC. That was already apparent in 1993 when they staged a WCC with the 2 loosers (to Short) Karpov & Timman.
From then on until today FIDE tried always different WCC cycles that failed miserably in attracting the chess public to these events. As a consequence not only interest but also prize funds for WCC events dropped significantly from the Fischer/Karpov/Kasparov times.
In 2006 FIDE had a chance to solve the misery by simply staging a Candidates-Tournament in Mexico (with the looser of the 2006 match/Topalov; the following WCC match maybe a year later could have been given to Mexico as “compensation” as well) instead of a WCC.
FIDE and the organizers of this event obviously feared that “degrading” the event to a “Candidates” tournament instead of a “WCC” tournament would spell financial desaster.
IMO these fears were completely wrong and a “true” Candidates tournament a la Curacao 1962 could have been even more attractive then the “artificial” WCC (with re-match rule) as was staged in Mexico last year with all those special rules and “what if…” regulations concerning Kramnik and Topalov…
What a pity. FIDE made a mess out of the Chess WCC cycle again and for the forseeable future nothing will change.
One day a rich Caucasian Oil-Mafia Private-Man will come along and choose all 3 years the No 1 and No 2 Chess Players in the world and stage a private “Classic” WCC-match between them …
“Ebutaljib” is obviously a fellow Indian countryman of Anand and completely biased in this discussion.
And your asssumption is based on what?
Am I now supposed to assume that you are Kramnik’s lover???
Find India on the world map, and then try to find Slovenia (and yes, my parents, grand parents, grandgrand parents etc. are from Slovenia, not India).
ebutaljib (no, thats not Indian either (or Slovenian for that matter))
ebutaljib:=
Slovenian for “hot tempered”
Yes, when people start talking about things they know nothing about.
ebutaljib