A few days ago, Silvio Danailov made an official protest against Kramnik. The official protest stated that Mr. Kramnik used the toilet about 50 times in each game.
This is the official rule from FIDE which both players agreed to prior to the match:
3. 17 Appeals Committee.
3. 17. 1 The President or his Deputy shall be Chairman of the Appeals Committee. There shall be two (2) other members all from different Federations. No member of the Appeals Committee can be from the federation of either player.
All protests must be submitted in writing to the Appeals Committee not more than two (2) hours after the relevant playing session, or the particular infringement complained against.
The Committee may decide on the following matters:
a) an appeal against a decision by an arbiter,
b) a protest against a player’s behaviour,
c) a complaint alleging false interpretation of the regulations,
d) a request for the interpretation of specific regulations,
e) a protest or complaint against any participant, or
f) all other matters which the Committee considers important.
If possible, the Committee shall reach a decision not more than two (2) hours after the submission of a protest. The appeals process shall include written representations and a written decision.
The Committee shall endeavour to find binding solutions that are within the true spirit of the FIDE motto, Gens Una Sumus. Each protest must be accompanied by a deposit fee of USD 5,000 (five thousand US Dollars) or the equivalent in local currency.
If the protest is accepted as logical and reasonable, the fee shall be returned even if the protest will be rejected. The fees not to be returned due to unreasonable protests shall be forfeited to FIDE.
The written decision of the Appeals Committee arising from any dispute in respect of these regulations shall be final.
The Appeals Committee made the following final decision:
In order that the World Championship can continue running smoothly, the Appeals Committee has decided:
(a) To close both the toilets in the players’ rest rooms and to open another toilet that will be available only to the two players.
(b) Not to accept the request of Mr. Danailov, to stop the use of the rest rooms by the players.
(c) The Appeals Committee believes that the publication of the videotapes to the mass media is not within our authority and we consider such action to be against the privacy of the players.
(d) The Appeals Committee will return the fee of USD 5,000 for the appeal to Mr. Danailov.
Mr. Kramnik did not agree with the decision. He refused to play game 5 unless his conditions are met. The arbiter started his clock 22 minutes late and he failed to show up within the time stated in the rule and was forfeited.
At the press conference, Mr. Kramnik stated that he is willing to play game 5 tomorrow (which means that he does not recognize his forfeit loss today) if the match proceeds as planned and there would be no change whatsoever in any condition.
In addition, he demanded that the Appeals Committee be replaced because he feels that they are more favorable toward Mr. Topalov.
Unless something can be agreed by all parties, the match will not go on. This is another sad episode for chess. I feel that all sides have valid points but I also believe that all parties made mistakes in handling this matter (perhaps some more than others).
I strongly believe that if chess has a serious and professional Chess Commissioner such as other major sports, this would not have happened. The players and organizers cannot be both judge and jury at the same time on matters like this.
These players are the best in what they do. We are witnessing the best attacker against the best defender and it can bring back true credibility to the World Championship title. The chess fans have been waiting 13 long years for the title to be reunited.
I urge all sides to think about the consequences and what they are doing to chess. Please put the best interest of chess and the chess fans first and put aside personal ego or destructive psychological mind games. May the best player win on the chess board!
I have no stake in this World Championship Match. I am not rooting for or against either player. I do not think either player cheats. I just think they went to far with the psychological mind games. This opinion is mine only and I state things as I see them from the perspective of a chess fan, chess professional, chess ambassador and as someone who competed and won the World Championship in the past.
“3. 18. 3 After the World Chess Championship Committee agrees with the Organisers on the arrangements in respect of the tournament hall, facilities, accommodation and meals, transportation, telecommunication, ceremonies, etc., no objections from the participants shall be acceptable as long as the conditions are in accordance with the rights of the players granted in their agreements.”
Doesn’t this mean Topalov’s objection should’ve been invalid anyway, because Kramnik has not done anything wrong according to the rules?
This is ridiculous, if anyone is to blame it’s Topalov and his petty politics!
I support Kramnik’s claim that the board wasn’t exactly neutral AND all the problems could have been solved by metal detectors and searching of his bathroom after he had visited.
But NO they decided to stop the public bathroom thing…. If Kramnik is smoking again this would be a serious attack on his chess by the Topalov team!
Also, The Topalov team invaded his privacy, Kramnik is right to adress that point too. As it looks right now… TOpalov is getting all the help he needs from the organisation over there. Kramniks claim of biased people over there seems right to me.
A last note: Topalov may be soooo suspucious because he himself pulled a bathroom in San Luis? To me chances are greater that Topalov cheated in San luis than Kramnik did here.
Susan,
It is normal to go 50 times in the toilets when playing some hours chess game??
I’m Bulgarian. I know Mr. Topalov from the very young age. We are from the same town. Mr. Topalov is incredible decent man with great integrity and ethics.
Lets play these games honestly…
The notion that chess players would ever agree to let one person or commission rule over them is kind of funny because it ain’t ever gonna happen. I mean we’re talking about CHESS players.
If they can’t agree to let FIDE rule over all world class chess, and FIDE can’t get it’s house in order, then it’s almost hopeless.
I don’t feel that all sides have made EQUAL mistakes.
I’d put 40% of the blame on Danilov, 29% of the blame on Topolov and 30% on FIDE and 1% of the blame on Kramnik.
I really don’t see what other choice Kramnik had in this situation. There is no way he could have won a game today with these attacks against him.
I don’t see any chance for the match to go forward
The question whether it’s normal to go 50x to the bathroom isn’t relevant. I don’t get why so many people keep nagging about this point. Kramnik has the right to go 1000000x to the bathroom if he likes. The point being that the rooms ARE being checked!
To say that Topalov is right to do this BECAUSE YOU have met him is as ridiculous as it would be calling Bush a peacemaker because he once intervened between a cat and a sparrow……
“If the protest is accepted as logical and reasonable, the fee shall be returned even if the protest will be rejected. The fees not to be returned due to unreasonable protests shall be forfeited to FIDE.”
Since they returned the $5000 to Danilov, FIDE has stated that they accuse Kramnik of cheating.
He will get 100 times that from them in his slander lawsuit.
With this kind of money at stake, how do they end up with amateurs in charge???
I agree with Susan – all involved should think about this and the games should go on. The big problem as I see it is that if Kramnik has officially been “forfeited” for Game 5, what do you do? If the forfeit is upheld, Kramnik will surely walk. And if the forfeit is overturned, I would expect Topalov to walk – Fischer/Spassky 1972 showed us that there is precedent for having a forfeited game when a player didn’t show up due to protesting match conditions.
So, if the match ends with no winner, maybe Kasparov can come out of retirement and claim the title again…
@Cosazeelandai
You are very naive, or arrogantly aggressive…
The American ethics does not play here…
The American hypocrisy too.
Please do not put us on your “frame” of moral.
Absolutely ridiculous. I like Topalov but to insinuate Kramnik is cheating, is absolutely nuts!
This is the same when they claimed Topalov was using computer assistance through his manager in San Luis!
Both sides are behaving badly, and FIDE isn’t helping matters. Remember it was Kramnik’s side who started this with allegations of the brain implant. It wouldn’t be surprising if this was payback for San Luis either.
But the REAL problem is all the personalities are so full of themselves it isn’t even funny. Contrast their behaviour with a certain man known as “T.O.”, recently accused of attempting suicide. He appears the next day, all smiles in front of the press to say it was all a misunderstanding, and after that, goes on to resume practice with his team with a broken finger that was operated on a couple of days ago. Topalov and Kramnik look like a couple of sissy boys in nice suits by comparison. If one of them were in T.O’s situation, he would have successfully committed suicide in protest!
Both sides should shut their mouths, play some chess, collect their cheques, and plan for a possible rematch. That’s called seeing the big picture–everyone wins.
Someone posted on Mig’s blog:
“Here’s the sequence of events as I see it:
1) Topalov: Kramnik cheats. I’m gonna take my ball and go home.
2) Appeals: Hmmm, you may be right, Kramnik can’t use his own toilet. Are you happy Sir?
3) Topalov: No, and I won’t shake Kramnik’s hand either. So there.
4) Kramnik: I like to walk and there’s more space in the toilet. Would you rather I paced in circles around the board?
5) Appeals: Outrageous! Lock Kramnik out of his bathroom!
6) Kramnik: If you change the match conditions I won’t play.
7) World: Make the hurting stop….”
Says more than dozens of cited regulations.
Topalov and Kramnik are to share the same bathroom? You gotta be kidding…
Imposing this on Kramnik a couple of hours before the game? pfff….
There seems to be only one plausible chance for this match to continue, and that is for the FIDE president to intervene and cancel the rulings of the Appeals Committee.
It is beyond me how Susan fails to see that Topalov and his team deliberatly sabotaged the match by accusing Kramnik of cheating followed by the no-handshake & seperate conferences.
What if Topalov already had an agreement with Azmaiparashvili on this matter, they damn well knew that Kramnik wouldn’t play game 5.
Sabotage if you ask me and no ‘Kramnik’ is to blame in any way, visiting the bathroom is his right as pointed out by Hensel!
I do agree Susan that Topalov should have considered the consequences for chess better!
>> Since they returned the $5000 to Danilov, FIDE has stated that they accuse Kramnik of cheating.
No they haven’t; they’ve stated that Topalov’s protest is reasonable.
No, FIDE is not saying that Kramnik cheated just that based on Danilov’s arguments, it is reasonable (as FIDE sees it), although incorrect.
I agree that most, if not all, the fault is in Topalov’s camp. FIDE pretty much said that Kramnik didn’t cheat, because if he did, he would have been forfeited out of the tournament. However, not giving consideration to Kramnik’s response and to forfeit him for Game 5 is unwarranted.
How can anyone expect to play with an opponent that refuses to shake your hand because he thinks you’re a cheater? Remember, this isn’t casual chess. This is any tournament. This is the tournament of all chess tournaments. Kramnik’s behavior is justifiable. It may not be the best reaction, but it certainly is justifiable.
“It is normal to go 50 times in the toilets when playing some hours chess game??”
Some people still think he passed water every time … Also he had a private rest room with a private toilet adjacent to it. I guess not even Super-GMs are offered this kind of luxury in normal tournaments.
Susan, I agree. As comical as this situation is, if it’s not resolved, it would NOT be good for chess.
Mark Marshall
‘@Cosazeelandai
You are very naive, or arrogantly aggressive…
The American ethics does not play here…
The American hypocrisy too.
Please do not put us on your “frame” of moral.’
Read my finger notes on ICC, I would very much like to see the whole Bush administration dead not to mention a few arrogant americans too…. you must have misunderstood me..
“He refused to play game 5 unless his conditions are met. ” Kramnik does not have any conditions. He is asking the agreed contract to be upheld and no changes made. It is the Topalov’s side that is asking for changes. Put yourself in Kramnik’s position, and you’ll see how absurd the accusation is.
Susan. Great site. Great service to the community.
I think that Topalov has been ill served by his advisors in this. He may have a legitimate complaint that Kramnik is disturbing him, but he escalated the dispute immediately by saying that he would refuse to shake hands and join press conferences. It need not have been leaked to the press and turned into an incident the night before the next round. Why not have quietly raised these problems after the game on Wednesday? The timing seems guaranteed to have pressured both sides and FIDE into acting hastily.
As to whether Kramnik needs to go to the bathroom 50 times per game, my reading is that he is pacing up and down in his private rest area, going through the toilet door entrance and back again. Maybe he has a health problem that requires him to sit down in there(!) but I thought that his arthritis or whatever just meant that he needs to get up and stretch continuously. (Although someone on ICC made the observation that Kramnik was content to sit down and wait out the default this morning for an hour.)
There is no “cheating” question.
There is doubt, based on the strange behaviour.
50 times in the toilets in some hours-IT IS NORMAL?
Topalov simply points to these questions.
Are you all blind?
or you never know where Bulgaria is on the map?
“I see no reason for Kramnik to continue only when all his demands will be accepted. “
->>This is the Dutch opinion on the matter. For the Dutch’s people “Bulgarian” mean “cheating”.
The great chess player today is Bulgarian. This is not possible for some people here…
Okay. Somebody else is writing on this page, but not Susan all the time herself. Somebody get paid to post and maintains articles in this page. It is a full time shop and Susan is only giving her name for it.
So do not thank her all the time for her effort etc…
_ a dissapointed fan
Lose with dignity!
I guess neither player checks Susan’s Blog!!
(Anonymous said…
Okay. Somebody else is writing on this page, but not Susan all the time herself. Somebody get paid to post and maintains articles in this page. It is a full time shop and Susan is only giving her name for it.
So do not thank her all the time for her effort etc…
_ a dissapointed fan)
Please don’t go to my site and insult me. I go to bed at 2:30AM and waking up at 6:30AM to prepare the commentary while getting my kids ready for school.
I am doing my best to get the chess fans updated info while doing an interview for BBC and other media.
If you don’t like my blog, it is OK. But don’t insult me by implying that I am not capable of doing this.
Best wishes,
Susan Polgar
http://www.SusanPolgar.com
To begin with, by signed contract, Kramnik should have played today so his forfeit is formally valid at this moment.
“15:45h: Kramnik is in his rest room, and is waiting for his toilet to open”- that was completely his decision.
I believe it is fair to point out any suspicious behavior if you are not explicitly accusing. So, Topalov’s team’s observations are reasonable and valid. The delicate part begins when they threatened with Topalov abandoning the match.
FIDE made a decision and communicated it, then Kramnik did not only felt offended but also made his own threats of abandoning the match unless some conditions were also met.
I believe each side has the right of whining as much as they want as long as they respect what they have agreed to – playing on a given schedule and under the agreed terms. The proble is when the terms are not clear or detailed enough, leaving room for this type of controversy. One lesson learned for the future is, for example, to add “ant-cheating” clauses in the agreements (involving searches, use of bathrooms, monitoring, etc.), not to insult anyone but just to minimize this type of occurrences as possible. However, for this match, what was signed is what was signed.
You see that the issue in discussion has been changing in magnitude – first whether or not Kramnik was in fact cheating; then whether Topalov’s teams’ request were valid; then whether FIDE’s decision was correct; then whether Kramnik’s forfeit was justified and now how will this match be resolved. For a resolution, you need to resolve each issue in its own scope.
To start resolving the problem at the scale it’s grown now, the firs step should be to resolve the following questions:
(1) Did FIDE change the regulations or added more detail to it?
(2) Was FIDE entitled to do what they did?;
(3) Was FIDE supposed to submit any proposed changes (or added details) in the regulations to both parties for agreement before being applied?
The answers to the questions above will determine whether or not FIDE proceeded correctly when changing the regulations (or adding more detail to it).
If FIDE proceeded correctly then Kramnik HAD to play and his forfeit is valid.
If FIDE was NOT correct, then Game 5 should be played after an agreement by both sides on the terms. However, FIDE would need to admit that they made a mistake, which is something very difficult to occur.
So, most likely, Kramnik will have a very tough decision to make – either to resume the match 3-2 or abandon the match, in which case, Topalov will be the ” unified” world champion… and I don’t think Kramnink will have the political influence to keep the cisma as Kasparov did have.
FIDE is the authority and they need to proceed as such, but some intelligence and clarity of thinking would help!
So far, FIDE clearly has shown that lacks ability to manage conflicts – amateurish handling of this type of situations! However, FIDE has an excellent chance now to show that they deserve to be the highest chess authority.
Unless FIDE overturns the forfeit, Kramnik is in a very bad situation now, from which, his bet shot would be to resume the match with 3-2 and without changes in the regulation – in that case, the pressure would be with Topalov to decide whether he will continue the match.
Under no circumstances there should continue being two champions. I believe FIDE has all it needs to resolve this situation, either with a match continuation or without. They just need some inteligence and competence. Topalov was smart enough to be present for the 5th game, so formally he has not violated any rule or agreed term.
Initially, I was rather saddened by today’s developments. However, with time, I’m realizing this may actually generate some media interest — for better or for worse.
Admired Topalov’s performance in the FIDE WC last year. His first game against Svidler was something. However, he did miss Rxg4 in game 2 against Kramnik.
Aside: those of you following this on the Internet Chess Club should remind yourself of the history there as well:
http://tinyurl.com/q5sd7
http://tinyurl.com/qwaxb
Who said this world is fair?
This match will not resume. Topalov takes Kramnik’s title.
There is no way the official result of 1-0 for Topalov in game 5 can be undone.
Even if the game 5 forfeit could be undone, Kramnik is (quite properly) not going to permit Topalov to be present when Kramnik needs to use the toilet to deal with his medical difficulties. The pre-match agreement specified a separate private bathroom for each player.
Congratulations to Danailov and Topalov. They found a clever albeit @#$%&* way to win, by the score of 0-2. They exploited the incompetence of the Appeals Committee members:
[] FIDE Vice President Zurab Azmaiparashvili
[] IM Georgios Makropoulos
[] Continental President for Americas FM Jorge Vega
*** This controversial ruling was sprung on Kramnik not long before the start of game 5! If Moe Larry and Curly had any common sense, as the Appeals Committee they would have issued their ruling on the evening before the next REST day! Instead they issue shortly before the start of a game?? ***
The reputations of Kiran’s FIDE, and of Kirsan’s Elista, shall suffer.
Ironically, Kirsan has a chance to improve his own reputation, if he can step in and fix this mess. Too late to fix it though.
Gene Milener
http://CastleLong.com/
Putting everything to blame on Topalov’s camp shows bias and lack of reason, nobody likes Danailov’s tactics and behavior as manager but that does not mean that the points raised are completely invalid. Everything could have been done in a more respectful and considerate way without waging and all-out war off the chessboard, but the bottom line is, Topalov’s team is not asking for special treatment. They want to put both players on equal footing, and considering the importance of the event, that means also full control and transparency on the players’ actions off-the board. Nobody tries to deny the right of Kramnik to stretch around and use the toilets ten thousand times if he wishes, but in a controlled way, no unmonitored private loos that allow people to cast doubt on the fairness of the match. I dont think that Kramnik is cheating, and there are no direct accusations of it on the Bulgarian side, but his response to all this – “I wont play until you unlock my private toilet” is all childish, he acts like a total chess primadonna for not realizing this. After all, despite all accusations and suspicions, Topalov was at the board and Kramnik wasn’t. Plain and simple. How is it that the current conditions favor Topalov? They are both using the same bathroom, they are both allowed to take breaks under the same conditions.
Susan,
Your site is great. Just ignore people like that one saying stupid things about this site and your work. You don’t even need to feel offended, as his words are completely worthless. One just can feel sorrow to see how pathetic some people are. Bad for them. You keep shining 🙂
Contratulations and thank you for your work!
On ChessBase.com I read Topalov will no longer shake hands with Kramnik before the start of games.
Handshake photos were taken very shortly before games 1 & 2 were published.
Before game 1 Topalov sits while shaking the hand of Kramnik, while Kramnik stands.
Before game 2 Topalov does not look at Kramnik while the two shake hands. In both photos, Kramnik does look at Topalov.
I believe each side has the right of whining as much as they want as long as they respect what they have agreed to.
I think so too and I think that Topalov didn’t respect the fact that they agreed upon a private bathroom WITH monitor!
This is all a conspiracy by Topalov – Fide – Azmaiparashvili and Danailov!
Many may wonder why the commission can be so biased… the awnser is simple. Ask the Supreme court about the Florida vote ruling (They all had ties with the Bush campaign).
We see the same political devices happen over and over again. And the public… well we are to stupid to understand what is really going on. Well usually, they have to deal with CHESSPLAYERS now…
Topalov will be lynched he he he he.
I’m shocked to see Kirsan’s reply to Vladimir:
I have carefully read your open letter of today addressed to me, and I hereby inform you of my full trust in the members of the Match Appeals Committee and their latest decision taken in respect of the appeal of Topalov’s team dated 28 September 2006.
This match is so over.
Thank you Susan!
WE appreciate your efforts to keep us informed and giving us this forum to voice our frustrations
I am having a hard time understanding why a player needs to go to the toilet after every move. I have been ill enough to require this many trips but I was too weak to play chess much less chess of the caliber of Mr Kramnik’s play in this match. So it is quite suspicious.
weeeee, weeeeeeee, weeeeeeee.
At the start of Game 5, Topalov was there and Kramnik wasn’t.
After all threats and whining on both sides, that’s the outcame and the only thing that matters. FIDE rulings havent stripped Kramnik off his queen or something, both players are still on the same footing, Kramnik just didn’t show up.
What did you expect? Kirsan will ofcourse support his own Fide Champion……
Kramnik’s rights have been violated by the commission that should see to it that the match is being held in an OK fashion!
The match was over the moment the commission agreed with Topalov and decided to violate the contract.
Susan,
I think you have an interesting idea with having a chess commissioner. I am interested in how you believe this would best work. All sarcasm aside, is not FIDE supposed to be a neutral body which serves in this role? If a commissioner were chosen, who would select him and what would be his relationship to FIDE? I think it sounds like an excellent idea, I’m just curious about the details.
Tim D.
Anonymous (the other one, not me!) makes some really interesting body-language points regarding the handshake photos on the Chessbase site.
I am really surprised that this situation erupted in this way. The players have always seemed such gentlemen and had only respectful and friendly remarks about each other before the match. A lot of the talk here and on ICC is about the psychological pressure of big matches. But you don’t expect Federer and Nadal to behave like this in tennis and refuse to shake hands. (Ok, McEnroe and Nastase once upon a time, maybe….) These two, along with Anand, seemed to me to be the chess equivalents: Great ambassadors for the game as well as great players. It’s very sad to see such brinkmanship and petulance from both of them.
I’d say, it is time for Kramnik to leave the scene and to hire a good commercial lawyer to bring FIDE on trial.
It looks like set up now.
Let’s see.
– The airport is closed because of unknown technical difficalties for a while.
– Appeals Committee obviously favors Topalov, which should be expected if you look at who are the members.
– Organaizers of Topalov-Radjabov match appeared on public in Elista, may be, because they felt, tha match and the prize fund and in jeopardy.
– If the match fails, it will be the end on WC matches history. Only tournaments will be organized in the future. This is what Kirsan wants.
Everybody gets what they want, except Kramnik and millions of chess fans. But FIDE does not care.
Excellent summary Vlad!
Clearly Kramnik was not consulting a computer when he made what should have been a game-losing blunder on move 31 in game 2 (nor was Topalov when he missed an obvious win on the following move). And surely if he were cheating, he (like any grandmaster) would have recognized the position at that point as critical, and chosen to cheat at that point. It wouldn’t make sense to cheat at points in the game where any of several possible moves was playable, but not to do so in positions where your judgment as a grandmaster tells you there is one and only one best move. Topalov should have won game 2; instead he missed an obvious win on move 32 and then drifted into a lost position.
And in game 1, Topalov lost because he blundered a pawn in a dead-drawn position. Kramnik hardly needed a computer to win after that point, as any 1800 player could have done so.
So Topalov’s complaints sound like sour grapes to me.
On the other hand, it does look suspicious to go to the bathroom 50 times per game, when there have been well-publicized scandals involving players going to the bathroom to consult computers. Was Kramnik doing this to try and bait Topalov? If so, it was rather unsportsmanlike.
Fischer’s prima donna behavior may have played some role in the attention chess received in the 1970s, but more likely it was mainly his high-quality play and the fact that he was an American taking the championship from a Russian that produced the U.S. chess boom in the early 1970s. Overall, his behavior hurt chess, because he wound up leaving the sport altogether. And I can’t imagine how the present scandal could help the popularity of chess, especially if (as seems likely now) the rest of the match is cancelled. Both players need to grow up and put the game ahead of their egos. It wouldn’t hurt Kramnik to simply point out how implausible Topalov’s accusation is, given what actually happened in the two decisive games, and get on with the match. And it wouldn’t hurt Topalov to admit to himself: “I lost games 1 and 2 because I made some stupid moves, not because Kramnik was cheating.” Our game can do without this display of poor sportsmanship on both sides.
It is strange that I love two games chess and cricket, and I love two players inzi and karmnik and both are sort of accused falsely of cheating. Yesterday inzi was declared innocent after a hearing from the criket czars ICC (international Cricket Council). But both of times accusations damaged the games instead of the people. Cricket match was forfieted by Pakistan and here the 5th game is forfieted by Kramnik. I hope the match continues. I totally agree with Susan that this is clash of giants and people should not be deprived of this match.
Susan this blog is great. I’ve enjoyed your commentary during the WC games and your news during this complication. I don’t think this will harm the world’s opinion of chess! Considering all the crazy things that have happened in the past this will be percieved as quite in character. What is so much harder for the world to believe is that chess players like yourself can not only compete at the highest levels but raise a family as well.
Thank you for all the good work you’ve done! You just may change the image of chess.
I am reading this while directing the Steve Dieckhoff Memorial chess tournament at Casa Mayan in Denver. (15-year old Sara Herman is currently leading the tournament.) Steve was a great guy who passed away less than a year after leaving this comment. He was well-known as a world-class rock climber in Boulder, Colorado.
There is a big difference between tennis and chess.
If any tennis player refuses to shake an opponent’s hand, they will be penilized by ATP, organizers can bun them from their events, and sponsors can cancel relationships, also.
Also, tennis is all over the world: on TV, in newspapers. No player wants bad publicity. It is not easy to be blamed on every TV channer, and in every newsstand.
In chess this became a practice. Just one of many tricks to win.
The match we all discuss here made notisable appearance in the general news only thanks to the scandal. Nobody really cares about chess anymore.
Kramnik has made a big mistake by forfeiting game 5; and in effect ending the match.
Perhaps Kramnik is under a naive idealized illusion that competition in chess is only about the moves. A competitor at his level has to be able to absorb an unfairness (real or perceived) without blowing an emotional gasket by refusing to play. He needs to keep fighting.
Topalov did not refuse to play, he only threatened to quit. Big difference.
All sports have their elements of gamesmanship. In the American NFL players sometimes punch each other under the pile after a tackle. The offended team cannot vacate the field just because the referee did not call a penalty.
Gene_M
Hi Susan,
I am chess fan from Brazil and I was following the matching even on my workings hours, because like you said, it was long expected to put an end at current “mess” around the chess title.
Than this bathroom thing happened.
I personnaly feel very embarassed to declare myself a fan of a sport where such things happens. How could I explain to my friends that a world title dispute ends because someone was going to much to the bathroom?
It is really ridiculous. I totally agree with you: it is not matter of take anyones side, but take the things more seriously.
Regars,
Rogerio Prudente
And what is going to happen if Kramnik refuses to continue the match:
1)Will Topalov ,according to forfeiting rules,win the match?
2)Can Kramnik go to the human rights court and press the charges about his human rights being broken as well as terms agreed prior to the match?
3)And if the rest of games will be cancelled,what about money for playing 1/3 of the games.
Will the players get any money then?
All these questions are interesting,but not as important as deciding who is a current and undisputed world chess champ.
I think Kramnik does NOT cheat (how could he supposedly do that??),but he is making a big and stupid mistake if he refuses to play.
It would be cool if he comes tomorrow ,continues to play like nothing happen and wins the match
like Fischer in 1972!
Susan Polgar said “Please put the best interest of chess and the chess fans first ”
Susan, when have they EVER done that ?
Using such a chess set is ridiculous when you see the time used by kramnik in his comings and goings.
But, it ‘s also a udge mistake to forget that Topalov and Kramnik are both very strong in blind chess! They proved it so many time in melody ambert tournament for years!
No matter how strong at blindfold chess the difference between playing blindfolded and looking at the board is at least 300 ELO points in magnitude (ask any master or see the articles at chessbase). It only takes a glance at the end of a certain planned line to give such advantage to Krmanik (seconds to set up).
Then ask Shirov and Ivantchouk that they could be 3000 elo just watching at the board 🙂
You just can’t play chess at their level.
No brainer who is at fault here. It’s Topa and his team. Just disgraceful behaviour from them. And I’m a neutral. From India. A Vishy Anand supporter.
Accusing someone of cheating without evidence before a match is a serious allegation and should not be dismissed as mere gamesmanship. It is not. Gamesmanship is what Tal used to do – like wearing gigantic sunglasses (against Benko I think). This case is similar to the Oval cricket test episode where the Pakistan captain and his team were accused of cheating.
This is a clear tactic probably suggested by Topa’s shrink to unsettle the match leader at the time. And unsettled he was. Quite obviously. Who can play a WC game after being accused of cheating? Imagine what frame of mind he must have been when such a serious allegation was thrown at him prior to the 5th game? Kram completely right in standing his ground.
Piss poor this from Topa and his team. A cheap trick. Kramnik legitimately can use the toilet as many times as he likes. 50, 5, 500 or 5000 times is a non-issue here. If you don’t agree to the conditions which were pre-set then why did you sign up in the first place? Kram didn’t violate any rules. And being a AS sufferer he is actually justified in using the toilet as many times he did because it allows him space to walk like he said. AS-affected backs can stiffen up within 10-15 minutes of sitting on a chair so you need to keep moving. As a fellow sufferer I know.
I think Kram has got a very strong defamation case here.
Have lost all respect for Topalov.
The portable chess set cheat scandal may explain how Kramnik “won” against Kasparov, since Krmanik made many suspicious trips to the toilet in that match too (and Kasparov complained also so if Topalov is to blame Kasparov is too). Before the match Kasparov-Krmanik no one believed the second would win, this might be the answer.
If there was anyone in the non-chessplaying world who thought that chessplayers were not total dorks, this should disabuse them of that notion . . . . It will really be pathetic if the match disintegrates because of this kind of idiocy.
Frederick Rhine
So who is going to organize Kramnik-Anand 2007?
Bill Brock
Chicago
Latest rumor:
Kramnik is not Kramnik!
Kramnik is really Fischer disguised as Kramnik!
This match will forever be known as:
The Deep Shit Affair
Let’s not forget that the protests are supposed to be lodged WITHIN TWO HOURS of the end of the game. Topalov’s team blatantly disregarded this. The appeals team was clearly wrong to even formally consider it; they should have sent it back with a comment that he should have lodged it after Game 5, not on the rest day.
First off,
How did Topolov’s team obtain access to the video? Shouldn’t that be investigated? It seems that the arbitrators are helping Topolov.
This is a serious mind blow to whomever loses the decision. If the forfeit is upheld Topolov is victorious in his mind game. If the forfeit is declined, Kramnik is victorious in the mind game.
I think they should award Kramnik money to accept the forfeit loss, open the toilets as they were in the first round, and continue with game 6.
I was a big fan of Topalov until I put myself in Kramnik’s shoes today. In games 1+2 Topalov declined draws because it was unclear whether he had a win or not. Evenso, in the fighting spirit of chess, he bravely played on and arguably had wins in both games 1+2.
Then the record skips…Topalov refuses to play on unless the conditions of the contract he himself signed are changed!? Can he do that? Why would he want to?
I almost pounced on some poor guy once because he kept giving me dirty looks day in day out. One day I calmly walked up to him and said “sup man? how’s it goin?”. He instantly ‘snapped out of it’ and said, “oh hey, how’s it goin?”. From that day on I understood that I was not the center of the universe. I understood that he didnt even see me, notice me, nothing. He wasn’t even on this planet. Maybe he was thinking about a bad break up or a bad childhood.
My point is simple. If I was playing WC, and was in the habit of pacing while I think, nothing but the chess board would exist in mind. Not the table it was on, not the chairs, not the walls, not the floor. Nothing but the chess would exist. If then, I was accused of literally NOT breaching the signed contract, and heard implications that I was cheating… I’d have 2 recourses to take.
1) Refuse to play under precedent of pride.
2) Explain to the accuser that, “this is just the sort of cheap trick a loser would use”. Explain that, “in another 9 games I’ll prove what you already know and fear…. ; me superior you inferior-PLAY ON!”
But it is not that simple. Topalov’s accusation of mischief and suspicious activity actually managed to have the original contract overruled and modified!
Now, the contract states, that eating lots of beans and taking laxatives before visiting the bathroom, and making sure you’re the first one in there, secures you a mental edge, as they are now both required to share a toilet.
Kramnik won’t play until the original contract is upheld, and demands the forfeit be overturned.
1-0 Topalov wins.
If Kramnik agreed to a starting time, and then didn’t show, yes it is a legal forfeit. No doubt. But I submit this as well: if his personal bathroom, at the time of the “forfeit”, was not reinstated, then legally, the contract was already breached before the game started. See breach of contract.
Apparently FIDE or whoever can overrule contract agreements under certain precedence, suspicious activity being one of them. What is not fair, is that the “activity” that Kramnik was engaging in, was OKed and signed off on by Topalov himself before the match.
What a cheap, dirty, abrasive, insulting trick Topalov is playing on Mr. Kramnik and most unfortunatley also the spirit and world of chess.
Topalov has nothing to lose and everything to gain by this abrasive attack…so he figures…
Topalov knows what’s going on and he obviously understands that overtime everyone will too.
My question to Topalov is this:
Is it in your best interest to know that everyone watching you play is rooting for the other guy for no other reason than that they find you a manipulative, cheating, over-the-border, shameless, mean kind of a jerk?
My advice to Topalov is this:
Withdraw your appeal with dignity, withdraw Mr. Kramnik’s forfeit, resume the tourney at 3-1, reinstate the original contract, and apologize for the transparent cheap trick. Only you can save the chessworld and would be held in highest regard and respect for it.
My question to Kramnik is this:
Do you not understand that these are the accusations of a desperate fool reaching into his almost empty bag of tricks? They are the death throws of a loser. Why are you playing into his hands?
My advice to Kramnik is this: Understand that he is making it apparent that he thinks he needs EVERY edge to beat you; even ones that he has to cross lines and disrespect himself and others for. Understand that he is making himself transparent in that he already knows he can’t win. Surely he’d rather play-on and take a chance on himself if he thought he even stood a small chance, rather than shame himself, his family, his country, the world of chess and definately the spirit of chess. Kramnik, you have this won. Eat beans and take laxatives before the match. On move 1, calmly get up, walk to the bathroom and MAKE IT YOURS. I doubt FIDE (or whoever modified the contract) made provisions for the condition you have to leave the bathroom in after you leave, they don’t seem to think at all much less ahead.
Anyway, that is my total take on the situation any opinions are absolutely welcome.
-DeeVeeOss
posted by DeeVeeOss