A blogger just posted the following:
US POSSIBLY LOSES OLYMPIC BRONZE MEDAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because Ivanchuk refused the doping-test after the last round in Dresden, the Ukrainian Team might loose points, which would result in Hungary getting Bronze instead of the US.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone know if this is true? I certainly hope that it is not. This is the first that I have heard of this. In my opinion, medals are to be settled on the board and not due to any technical reason outside of one’s control. The U.S. and Hungarian teams had nothing to do with this episode. I believe that Gata did comply and took the test just as I did in 2004 in Calvia.
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
Dear Susan,
I think this qustion is more than disturbing. Many question have to be answered.
Yes, you are rigth, results must be turned out on the board. The main problem is that if Ivanchuk really failed the dopping test than he must get punishment. According to the IOC rules it is two years…
Fide must follow this…
The chess world without Ivanchuk would be terrible…
In 2004 in Athens, Adrian Annus was punished because he didn’t wait the end of the dopping controll and he went home without giving enoguh urine.
It was never proved that Annus used drugs or not, but he was banned for two years.
Jacques Rogge claims zero tolerance and he pays regard to nobody and nothing.
Very difficult to say, but if this rumour is true, than Ivanchuk must be banned.
This would be very sad even if Hungary got the bronze.
Re-distribution of medals is nothing new and has been done in many sports before (even after some years have passed).
I don’t think Ivanchuk used something, but refusing the doping test is the same as testing positive – a ban. Of course his results are then annuled, and as consequences tie-break criteria changes for all teams who played against Ukraine in the Olympiad. USA draws a short straw here.
By the way, where did you read/hear that this might be a possibility? I thought Ivanchuk will just get away with it.
I’m glad that he won’t, because what he did was totally unprofessional.
“Don’t play the game, if you can’t play by the rules.”
And doping tests were just part of the rules.
And if FIDE didn’t follow the rules then the IOC would never take chess seriously…
the worse thing that could happen is that US losses the medal but Ivanchuck gets a slap on the wrist with no suspension or a really small one.
If the allegation is true, that is my bet for how this plays out.
I am new to this blog and know nothing about Olympiad rules. I don’t think it is fair to re-calculate the tie-breaking points for any team except Ukraine retroactively. Teams devise strategies for each round based on their standings in prior rounds.
The only fair result is for Ivanchuk to be banned and for Ukraine to lose points, but to leave the points for every other team intact.
You “lose” a medal, you don’t “loose” it.
yeah. heard the rumour was true.
don’t worry. 4th placing is still a respectable finish.
A point to note is that he did not submit a sample for the test – this is quite a bit different than failing the test.
FIDE is a joke; led by the joker IllusionOF
Is it really useful for FIDE and for professional chess players, to go for becoming an “olympic” sport?? (I doubt that it makes any difference for amateurs.) So far, I see only the downside of it, the doping tests which turn chess from a cultivated mind game into a humiliating circus, losing it’s dignity.
At the same time, there is not much hope anyway that chess will become a regular part of the olympic games. Wouldn’t it be better to quickly quit this whole IOC/olympic/doping tests stuff, and be independant again?
good on Ivanchuk !!!
even Karpov said how stupid it was to do dopping tests on chessplayers. Its computer-cheats that are the problem in chess. Metal detectors are needed not dopping tests.
Its about time the silly short-sighted chess officals stopped trying to kiss up to the IOC. The Chess Olympiad is an amazing sporting event on its on terms, the second biggest sporting event in the world in terms of countries competing and should be keeped away from the summer olympics. Chess at the Summer Olympics would never compare to the Chess Olympiads we have now.
STOP the dopping tests !
STOP kissing up to the IOC
Chess already has the best sporting event ever, and its run ever 2 years.
I’m really Jonathan Berry.
It’s not a revelation. Here is what chessbase had to say a few days ago:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5037
The unexpected ½:3½ loss to the USA – it could easily have been a 0-4 blowout – was quite traumatic for the Ukraine, which lost a clearly attainable medal in the process. Vassily Ivanchuk, who can suffer like no other contemporary chess player from an unnecessary loss, emerged from the hall and started kicking a pillar (“A wonder,” said a spectator, “that he did not fracture a number of toes.”). Unfortunately the Ukrainian team had been selected for a FIDE doping control, and an arbiter tried to lead Ivanchuk to the checking area for a unrine sample. But the distraught Ukrainian star broke free and disappeared for the rest of the evening. This put FIDE into a quandary: to cancel all results of the Ukrainian team at the Olympiad, as clearly prescribed by the IOC rules, and give the medals to different teams; or to make an exception and risk chess not becoming an Olympic discipline for ignoring the doping rules. After some passionate canvassing by former World Champion Boris Spassky FIDE went for the second option.
The whole point of this is that the rules must be followed.
You can’t just decide which rules/laws you will follow and which you won’t.
It’s as simple as that.
The rules must be abandones- no more doping tests it is wrong for chess.
Banning Ivanchuk, the player with the most life and soul of chess, would be a tragedy and insult for the game far worse than any olympiad medals (chess is an individual sport really)
Yes, they have to follow the same procedure that they did to Papua New Guinea in Turin. Refuse test – lose points.
If there is a rule for recalculating tie breaks they have to follow it. If there is no rule, then removing Ukraine from its position but leaving the order of other teams the same may be fair. That would reflect what happened in play at the board.
Ironic to lose big time in final round and face a dope test -its not like they found a drug that helped them any!
The main problem is that if Ivanchuk really failed the dopping test than he must get punishment.
No, he didn’t fail the dopping test, he didn’t take it. If anyone among the chess players, Ivanchuk is the one who is flaky enough to refuse for whatever other, for us totally unknown reasons.
Metal detectors are needed not dopping tests.
I absolutely agree. The whole dopping issue became a paranoid hysteria. Does anyone seriously believe, that by taking anything, would make one to defeat the bests in the world in chess, or climb through mountains on a bicycle faster than the best bicyclists in the world, or run faster the 100m than the fastest runners in the world? As a physician and a person who knows biology and physiology better than the average, I can assure you all that the answer is no to all of the above questions. The various dopping items have a mostly psychological effect. The real performance also maybe ever so slightly elevated, but not to the point of becoming the victor on major events of anything, against the bests of anything.
Additionally there is a theoretical fault too. The dopping hysteria fails to differentiate between chemicals, otherwise produced by the human body, or not. Pay attention please. Take for example vitamin D and testosterone. One is a serious dopping violation, the other is not. What is the difference? If the body is not producing enough vitamin D, the person can pop one and that’s it. Yet, if the body is not producing enough testosterone, and the person pops one, he is out. Now, the lack of sufficient vitamin D can effect the performance (of anything) just the same. Anyone can explain to me in scientific terms, what is the conceptual difference between the lack of sufficient vitamin D and the lack of sufficient testosterone?
How about coffee? Caffeine is just as much of an upper, and not a natural product of the body as amphetamine. Amphetamine is just better, that’s all. Because it would be ridiculous to ban Coca Cola or coffee. Other than that (the social acceptance), there is no conceptual difference.
There are more serious faults in the dopping scenery, but I don’t want to write a “book” here. FIDE should have refused to participate in this madness, and still should.
Yes I was mistaken, Ivanchuk didn’t fail the test, but did no take it. I am sorry. But the end should be the same.
Pitor- I disagree with you- the rule should be overturned for all- no more drug testing in chess. It is something nothing to do with chess in reality so why be so strict on taking the tests. Just say to the IOC that it doesn’t apply to chess- instead the concern is on computer cheating. Maybe the IOC will say everyone must stand on their heads and sing 3 times before breakfast- but should we then make that a rule?
Of course, I also disagree with the current rules. But according to them the only solution would be the ban.
I just say that if chess really wants anything with the IOC, if chess wants to get into this organization then FIDE must follow them.
Shirov says that it is time not to follow the IOC rules. Maybe he is right.
“Anyone can explain to me in scientific terms, what is the conceptual difference between the lack of sufficient vitamin D and the lack of sufficient testosterone?”
In other words, GABOR, is pro doping…