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Ne5
1.Nh4 Qh5 2.Bd6+ Kf7 (2…. Kg8 3.Rb8+) 3.Re7+ Kf8 (3…. Kg8 4.Rb8+) 4.R7e8+ Kf7 5.Rf8#
1 mean 1…. Na5 Qa4 2.Be3+ Kc2 (2…. Kb1 3.Rg1+) 3.Rd2+ Kc1 (3…. Kb1 4.Rg1+) 4.Rdd1+ Kc2 5.Rc1#
Or even 1…. Na5 2.Qa4 Be3+ 3.Kc2 (3.Kb1 Rg1+) 3…. Rd2+ 4.Kc1 (4.Kb1 Rg1+) 4…. Rdd1+ 5.Kc2 Rc1#
Sorry I had a retained image of the g rook being at g1 from other lines, 4…. Rg1+ 5.Bd1 Rdxd1+ 6.Kc2 Rc1#
James,
What is Black going to do if white just concedes the queen and plays 2.Nf5? It could look like this:
1. ………Na5
2. Nf5 Rg1 (what better?)
3. Kc2! Nc4 (what else now?)
4. Bc4
And, black has an exchange for a pawn, but he now has to blockade the h-pawn (the other point behind 2.Nf5 beyond the cover on e3). It is hard for me to tell who is better, but the rook on h7 won’t be doing much, and I don’t know if black’s passed pawn is decisive or not.
I have some issues with Rajan’s line, too, I think his line is too slow in waiting for Na5- mainly in that white can push that h-pawn after black captures the white queen- very dangerous looking to me, maybe even losing with my cursory analysis.
Yes, I realized that I wasn’t playing the critical line for White but I didn’t notice that Black was down on material to start with and ! missed the queening power of the a pawn so I was kind of ignoring the critical line because I didn’t think there would be anything that wasn’t resignable.
I mean the h pawn.
1) … Be3+ (Bishop checking King)
2) Kb1 Rg1+
3) Bf1 Rd1+
4) Kc2 Rc1+
5) Kb3 Na5+ (Forking Queen & King)
6) Ka3 NxQ
7) BxQ Bxh6 (Black is a Rook up now and has 2 pawns in the centre for winning)
or Kc2
Rajan, I mentioned it above in passing, but your line might need an adjustment if white simply plays 7.h7 rather than capturing the knight.
I don’t like the 1. … Be3+ line because of 7. h7! as Yancey pointed out. But what if we merge it with the 1. Na4 line?
1. … Na5 2. Nf5 Be3+ 3. Nxe3 (or the 1 … Be3+ lines are now mate!) Nxc4 4. h7 (4. Nxc4 Rg1 and the pawn falls) Nxe3 5. Rh1 (5. h8Q Rg1+ wins) Rxh7 6. Rxh7 leaves Black with a nice set of passed pawns.
Is there something better?
Karthik,
1. ……….Na5
2. Nf5 Be3
3. Ne3
Yes, I think it certain 3.Kb1 leads to mate, less sure about 3.Kc2 leading to mate, but the rook at h2 is going to be lost for sure, so that leaves 3.Ne3, but then I don’t like the rest of your line:
3. ……….Nc4
4. h7??
Black can just sacrifice for the pawn now, and maintain a material edge
4. ………..Ne3
5. Rh1 Rh7
And white has avoided an immediate loss, but black has only the passed e-pawn, not a set of passed pawns. Black is definitely better in this line, but white misses the right continuation at move 4:
4. Nc4!?
I don’t give it the ! since I can’t really tell which is better Nc4 or Bc4, but they both look winning to me- white is up two minor pieces and a pawn for a rook, and the passed h-pawn is still threatening- this has to be winning for white since there are now no mate threats on the white king.
Na5, if Qe6(or other queen saving move) Be3+, Kc2 Rd2+, Kb1 Rg1+, bishop interposes and rook mates. if Nxf5 Rg1+,Bf1 Nxc4, and after some exchanges black is up by two pieces and one pawn is passed (easy win). Other moves by white are worse.
Another combination of both lines seems to be killing.
1… Be3+ 2. Kb1 and now 2… Na5. N attacks Q and blocks b3 making
K’s escape impossible. I cannot see any effective defense against Rg1+
with mate or huge material loss. Eg
3. h7 Rg1+ 4. Bf1 Rd1+ 5. Kc2 Rc1#
3. Nxf5 Rg1+ the same
after 1… Be3+ 2. Kc2 Rd2+ seems deadly since 3. Kb3 Na5+ it is either
4. Ka3 Nxc4+ (with check!) or 4. Kb4 Rxb2+ etc.
(1… Be3+ 2. Kc2 Na5 is not so simple because of some messy 3. Bf1 Nxc4
4. Bxc4 and the fight still goes on because 4…. Bxh6 5. Nxf5, chaos)
It is a fascinating messy position, there are numerous sidelines but in
a nutshell 1… Be3+ and then Na5 seems to be a winning combination.
Yes, that’s the best plan.
If 1. ….Be3 is the best line (I am still not convinced, but I am all out of ideas of my own at the moment), then probably the key line is….
1. ………Be3
2. Kb1
I think you are completely correct in regards to 2.Kc2 Rd2+.
2. ……….Na5!
3. Rh1!?
Addresses the immediate problems on the back rank, but now black has a clear path to a material edge:
3. ………..Nc4
4. Bc4 f4!
And black is up an exchange with threatening connected passing pawns. Work to be done, but I have to believe this advantage is decisive since I can’t see a way for white to avoid the exchange of rooks at g1 weakening the passed h-pawn. I need to look at this a bit more, but I think it is best line I see for black from all the comments.
The Be3+ moves to either Kb1 and Kc2 lines; if Kb1, then the Queen can be won, by force.
However, if Kc2, then mate is forced.
The C file is notable. It can be exploited by placing the Knight at d4. If Pawn takes Knight, then Rook c7 skewers the Queen (Be3+, Kc2, Nd4… employs this.)
But, this line is sharper:
–> Be3+, Kc2, Qa4, Rd2+, Kb1 or Kc1,
if Kb1 or Kc1, then Rg1+, Qd1, Rg1xQ+, BxR, RxR+, Kc2, Rc1#
Apologies if I missed something, but I have the flu.
1. …Na5 is sharpest
2. Qa4 (sharpest reply, but hopeless) all other moves by the Queen get the piece out of the picture
2…Be3+
trivial from there using the rooks…all roads lead to mate
There are a lot of lines above, but to complicated. There is a simple way of winning.
1. Be3+ Kb1 (if …Kc2, then 2. Rd2 Kb3 and 3. Na5 with winning endgame)
2. Rg1+ Bf1 (if …Kc2, look the line above) ..2. Bd1 leads to the same continuation after Rxd1 followed by 3. Rc1+
3. Rd1+ Kb2
4. Rc1+ Kb3 and it is over after 4. Na5+
Well, no, it isn’t over by any means- you have just reproduced one of the complicated lines above from Rajan.
1. Be3
2. Kb1 Rg1
3. Bf1 Rd1
4. Kc2 Rc1
5. Kb3 Na5
6. Kb4! Nc4
7. h7! Rgf1
I have no idea what is best for black here at move 7- black can choose to win the bishop, save knight, or let white decide whether to queen on the next move or not. I look briefly at all of them and they all look fairly balanced to me- nothing really jumps out at me as advantageous to black- this line 7. …Rgf1 looked the most reasonable for black to me when I studied this last night. Continuing:
8. h8(Q)
White can take the time to capture the knight, but then black can play Bf4 causing some issues I didn’t resolve fully yesterday nor tonight, but it didn’t look terrible for white either way to me, but others can take a look if they want. Continuing:
8. …………..Nd6 (maybe Nb6 is better? I really can’t decide)
9. Qe5 Rcd1
10. Ng6
And if black has a clear advantage here, it is well beyond my ability to see it. I much prefer Philosopher55’s line to the above.