White to move and win. It is more than 10 moves long so think carefully. Enjoy 🙂 
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c7 Rh8 nd8 Rh6+ Kc5 Rh5+ Kd6 Rh6+ Ke7 Rh7+ Nf7.. white gets Q and N for a rook which is easily won
…except black has Rh2 instead of Rh5+, and it’s not so easy. I can’t find a win for white.
OK, white simply has to deny black the tactic in my previous post, so after Rh6+ 3. Kb5! and white proceeds up the b file and only crosses the c file at c2, then bringing the king back down the d file until she can play Ke7, winning “easily”.
1)c7 Rh8
2)Nd8 Rh6+
3)Kb7 Rh2
4)c8-Q Rb2+
5)Ka8 Ra2+
6)Kb8 Rb2+
7)Nb7
And white wins as black runs out of checks
1. c7 Rh8 2. Nd8 Rh6+ 3. Kb5 Rh5+ 4. Kb4 Rh4+ 5. Kb3 (5. Kc3 Rh3+ 6. Kd4
gives the same idea) 5… Rh3+ 6. Kc2 Rh2+ (6… Rh4
and here the fun, cos if}7. c8=Q?? Rc4+ stalemate after 8. Qxc4) 7. Kd3 Rh3+
8. Kd4 Rh4+ 9. Kd5 Rh5+ 10. Kd6 Rh6+ 11. Ke7 Rh7+ 12. Nf7 1/2-1/2
And fun_chess, you miss 3.Rh7
I like awfulhangover’s soln, but I think the following works equally well
1)c7 Rh8 2)Nd8 Rh6+ 3)Kc5 Rh1 (Rh2 leads to similar things) 4)Nc6 ! Rc1+ 5) Kd5 Rd1+ 6)Ke3 Re1+
7) Kf2 Re8 8) Nd8! (now Black has no way of stopping the pawn, so he has to keep checking) Rf8+ 9)Kg3 (return journey of the King and Black will soon run out of checks) Rg8+ 10)Kh4 Rh8+ 11)Kg5 Rg8+ 12) Kh6 Rh8+ 13) Kg7 and its all over
Actually I think this solution is better, because 6..Rh4 in awfulhangover’s soln leads to a draw
I cannot find a win… Surely black can at least get a draw!
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I guess you guys all need to see the whole line spelled out.
funchess, what about 3. Rh7 draw
samikd, 4. Rh8 draw
I thought my post was pretty clear but here is the whole line spelled out.
1. c7 Rh8
2. Nd8 Rh6+
3. Kb5 Rh5+
4. Kb4 Rh4+
5. Kb3 Rh3+
6. Kc2 Rh2+
7. Kd3 Rh3+
8. Kd4 Rh4+
9. Kd5 Rh5+
10. Kd6 Rh6+
11. Ke7 Rh7+
12. Nf7 1-0
The rook can never get to the c-file in time. Too bad for black his king isn’t on b1.
chris marks, thats exactly the solution awfulhangover had proposed before
chris, what about 6..Rh4 7c8=Q Rc4 ! as awfulhangover pointed out ?
after 6. .. Rh4 just 7. Kd3, again keeping the rook of the c file. Yes awful gave this line (after I had explained it) but it wasn’t so clear what he meant since he ends it with 1/2-1/2.
susan is there going to be a post about your club rapids champ event which is happening today?
Here is my thinking on these puzzles.
Susan says the solution is more than 10 moves long.
therefore any so called answer is NOT an official Solution unless it has all more than 10 moves explicitly spelled out and written down in detail. Very carefully and clearly. so everyone can very easily understand the moves.
all too often people give answers in general words. that is not acceptable. All the moves must be listed in a very easy to read and understand form. a column seems best.
I hope we can agree on that.
There is one solution presented here. It gives 12 moves.
that solution is NOT sufficient. Black might make other moves and they should be covered when significant. in this case there is an important different attempt to defend. that is with Rh2 trying to go for perpetual check.
so adding to the solution given with 12 moves we need to consider.
1. c7 Rh2
2. c8Q Rb2+
now black wants to check on the a and b files. if he goes to the c file he loses the queen and it becomes a draw.
so I will allow you to work on this one. the solution is not so easy as was the proposed solution presented. this is a much better defense.
we find that if the black king were on b1 instead of a1, the game would be drawn.
there is No perpetual check on a and b files as after 3Kc6 Rc2+ 4.Nc5 wins
7 Rh8 nd8 Rh6+ Kc5 Rh5+ Kd6 Rh6+ Ke7 Rh7+ Nf7.. white gets Q and N for a rook which is easily won
c7 Rh8 nd8 Rh6+ Kc5 Rh5+ Kd6 Rh6+ Ke7 Rh7+ Nf7.. white gets Q and N for a rook which is easily won, sorry for posting the same thing 3ce
and also sorry for missing the same thing thrice. 🙂
Ok, maybe I should have told you that after 6.-Rh4 you have to play 7. Kd3 to avoid the stalemate, but I thought that was obvious after seeing my main line.
Wow, I hardly agree with anything in the long anonymous post above (and I usually wouldn’t even respond to someone who won’t put his name to his words, but couldn’t resist this time). There is no “official” solution; this is not a contest. I think it’s clear that Susan is trying to teach. In that light, it is clear that a solution that explains the winning line with chess ideas is much more useful than a long list of variations. If you want variations, plug the position into your favorite engine, but don’t expect to learn anything very useful. This is also not the World Chess Solving Championship, there is no need to repeat lines that have already been given or that contain redundant ideas or transpositions. Just try to have fun and learn something.
ok, how does…
c7 Rh8//Nd8 Rh6//Kb5 Rh5//Kb4 Rh4//Kb3 Rh3//Kc2 Rh2//Kd3 Rh3 and chase the king up the d-file to d6, when you can then play ke7 and block rh7 with nf7 sound?
samik said…
there is No perpetual check on a and b files as after 3Kc6 Rc2+ 4.Nc5 wins
10:52 PM
of course there is no perpetual check. I never said there was. I said trying to go for it as an explanation of his strategy.
However, chess is so much fun because the opponent does not do what you think he is going to do. and in a study it is necessary to check out all the possibilites that are possible. without doing that you do not have a solution.
Dont get me wrong. White wins this. but you have to win it first. against all players including me.
1. c7 Rh2
2. Kc6 Rh8
Like Bobby Fischer said. Make a different move and lose in a different way.
if you move Kc6 then the correct move for black is Rh8. White will still win. but
YOU STILL HAVE NOT SHOWN THE WIN.
And what dont people agree with. the fact that I state that the solution should be listed in an easy to read format so every one can understand it clearly.
I guess you want to argue that any kind of messy solution is acceptable even when other people can not understand what you are trying to say as opposed to what you actually said that is incomprehensible.
So finally I say. Can someone come up with a solution. so far there is NO solution to this puzzle listed.
it is like Mathematics. in mathematical proof, you must have every tiny detail correct or the Proof is not considered valid.
Now I am not saying we have to have every detail. but we do need lines that look at best defences by black. and so far no one has looked at the best defense as I have proposed for black.
Susan Polgar warned you on this problem
” White to move and win. It is more than 10 moves long so think carefully. Enjoy 🙂 “
so far no one has demonstrated that they have thought carefully. The reason that chess is so good for kids is that it teaches them to think correctly. maybe we should teach chess to adults.
Well might the missing line be something like:
1. c7 Rh2 2. c8Q Rb2+ 3. Ka5 Ra2+
3. Kb4 Rb2+ etc. and after the white king reaches b3, Rb2+ can be answered with Kc3.
Thanks for the excellent puzzle, I love working these out, even if not correctly all the time !
Sorry but I looked at this more closely. BLACK DRAWS.
samik said…
there is No perpetual check on a and b files as after 3Kc6 Rc2+ 4.Nc5 wins
10:52 PM
1. c7 Rh2
2. Kc6 Rh8
Black draws by repetition. Maybe I am wrong. but show me the win for white from this position.
This is the reason you have to think clearly and present the solution carefully and clearly and easy to read.
1. c7 Rh8 2. Nd8 Rh6+ 3. Kb5 Rh5+ 4. Kb4 Rh4+ 5. Kb3 Rh3+ 6. Kc2 Rh2+ 7. Kd3 Rh3+ 8. Kd4 Rh4+ 9. Kd5 Rh5+ 10. Kd6 Rh6+ 11. Ke7 Rh7+ 12. Nf7 Rh2 13. c8=Q winning.
misa said…
Well might the missing line be something like:
1. c7 Rh2 2. c8Q Rb2+ 3. Ka5 Ra2+
3. Kb4 Rb2+ etc. and after the white king reaches b3, Rb2+ can be answered with Kc3.
Thanks for the excellent puzzle, I love working these out, even if not correctly all the time !
9:57 AM
This wins but the problem just begins here. so when I said
1. c7 Rh2
2. c8Q Rb2+
now black wants to check on the a and b files. if he goes to the c file he loses the queen and it becomes a draw.
I knew it was easy to get the king to c3. but now the problem begins again. The game is won but how to do it efficiently. when you get the king on c3 then black will move Kb1. thus it becomes obvious that if the king was already on b1 the game would be a draw.
there are a lot of moves from here. New problems present themselves. that is the reason you need to list the moves carefully because everything depends on who is to move in each position and you have to show solutions to all the new problems that present themselves as the moves are made.
The reason I am not writing out the entire solution is because then eveyone will just look at it and say problem solved and not learn to think. I am forcing everyone who is willing to work hard to try to solve this correctly. that work is the way we learn to play chess.
as many have said they search for the TRUTH in the position.
Now I might have made a mistake and I could be wrong. but I think that the truth is
1. c7 Rh2
2. Kc6 Rh8
is a draw. I hope I am not wrong. will someone show me the win from this position.
we are still stuck at move 2. we have not solved the problems involved in move 2 yet. so we do not have a solution yet. We need to decide if 2.Kc6 wins or draws and why.
this is the way to learn chess.
to be honest, anonym, i do not understand your problem – in the given position (black king on a1)
1. c7 Rh2?
2. Kc6?? won’t meet 2. … Rh8??? (did you notice the increase of question marks? .-)but 2. … Rc2+ with a draw.
indeed, would the black king stand on b1 instead of a1, in the given position, i agree with you, that it is draw in all variations.
Because this is a study, there is an official (in fact, two, minor dual) in this puzzle.
1. c7! Rh8
2. Nd8 Rh6+
3. Kb5! Rh5+
4. Kb4 Rh4+
5. Kb3 Rh3+
6. Kc2 Rh2+
7. Kd3 Rh3+
8. Kd4 Rh4+
9. Kd5 Rh5+
10. Kd6 Rh6+
11. Ke7 Rh7+
12. Nf7
Or White can deviate in his 5th move by
5. Kc3 Rh1
6. Kd2 Rh2+
7. Kd3 tranposing into the solution
A few remarks:
1. c7 Rh2?
2. c8Q Rb2+
and here, the fastest way for White to get rid of these desperate checks is
3. Kc6 Rc2+
4. Nc5 (Samik)
but of course, the King walk b6-a5-b4-c3 (Misa) works very well too!
With a black king at b1 in the initial setting, there is blatantly a draw!
And the minor duals in such constructions (5. Kb3 or 5. Kc3) are unavoidable. Even the Saavedra or this little sketch by Troitzky:
wKe6,Pd6/bKg7,Rg5, White Wins
are flawed by such a little imperfection.
Anyway, here’s the source:
Karstedt, Deutsches Wochenschach, 1911, #1169