I do not know what is happening right now. Both sides are unhappy!
First, Topalov wanted to walk. Now, Kramnik wants to walk. Neither side is happy with the decision by FIDE.
Topalov now is willing to play but will refuse to shake hands with Kramnik. Kramnik has made no decision if he is willing to continue if he has to share the same private bathroom with Topalov.
The game is late! Both sides are waiting for the decision by the arbiter right now. What a mess!! This is precisely the reason why I suggested for chess to have a Chess Commissioner, independent from FIDE and ACP.
Topalov is at the board. Kramnik is at his private restroom. But he refuses to start unless his private bathroom is unlocked. Apparently, one private bathroom for both players is not acceptable by him. And the saga continues…
I have read a lot of comments so far from the regular chess fans to chess professionals. Some agree that 40-50 trips to the bathroom per game is unreasonable. Some think that Kramnik is entitled to go to the bathroom 100 times a game if he wants and Danailov was wrong for protesting.
The bottom line is both sides are playing this psychological game against each other instead of thinking of the best interest for chess. They are each paid $500,000 tax free to play this match for the chess highest honor. They should both behave honorably! They both should put the best interest of chess and the fans first!
The fans waited 13 years for a unification match and we are fighting over 1 or 2 toilets?
This is a typical argument, even among GMs:
FrozenShade(GM): kotronias, does it appear like kramnik played lots of computer moves so far? to me it seemed like topalov just donated him two points, end of the story.
Kotronias(GM): If Kramnik’s problem is walking he could have suggested finding another solution, like an enlarged room with surveillance
BadViking(GM): blunder checking is good enough, doesn’t need to play lots of computer moves.
Kotronias(GM): One cannot be sure of anything in such a situation, with a lot of money at stake.
TIGRANO(GM): i am totally sure that match will finishes after this game.
Kotronias(GM): I think what is insulting is Kramnik’s utterly ridiculous response that he is using the bathroom in order to walk.
duendecilla(GM): I think if Bessel Kok was FIDE president, we would have a good and working cycle to determine world champion.
I think this is a deal breaker. I do not see an exit if both sides stand by what they expressed in the latest letters. And even if a miracle happens, the ‘etoso’ or environment of the game is already too charged: not shake hands? Chess is a sport for gentlemen! They have spoiled the party, completely. What a shame.
Topalov is aiming for a psychological advantage now that is down 3-1. It is understandable.
But not shaking hands etc. is just crossing the line.
I think Topalov is depending too much on this so called psychological advantage (we remember game 1). He should just play better.
Kramnik’s frustration is understandable.
One more time, Image of chess is lowered by those kind of players. They are exactly like their predecessors. This behaviour is a shame.
Well well……..even at the top levels there is the accusation of cheating going on. How convenient. Even though i personally think the accuasations of cheating on kramnik’s part are very ill-supported, this brings me back to my recent memories of cheating at the world open in philadelphia. I won 2nd place in the under 1800 category. I had told a friend of mine (whom was also playing in a different section) that if he finished earlier to watch my opponent as the game progressed, only because of other accusations that had been made in various sections (ex. Steve Rosenberg). My game ended in a 13 move draw so no problem was personally encountered but from the looks of it almost every section had some sort of scandalous activity in the money rounds (rounds 8-9). What has chess become?? Personally i see no reason why each player needs a private room of any sort (including a bathroom). And as far as walks, tea, water, or whatever stupid excuse can come about im sure it wouldnt be difficult to meet those needs of the players without requiring a private restroom. Give me a break this is ridiculous and I think i speak for everyone when I say quit whining and play some chess!!
I can see the headlines now: “Chess World Championship Down The Pan”
There you go. Topalov is sitting at the board, waiting for Kramnik. Time is running.
What is so bad in using a single bathroom for this game only, play your darn game, and then discuss the toilet issue afterwards?
Fishy.
If these are just ‘prima dona’ tantrums, and or psych games, I think Topalov is one pawn up in this one.
Kramnik will forfeit the match and hold a press conference when it’s over.
There you go! So, if it is true that Kramnik is standing in front of his bathroom’s door, demanding that its door be open before he plays, then this is really a big tantrum or there is a cat in that bag. Hum!
what you think about?
who are right? topalov or kramnikx
FIDE is responsible for this mess.And,sadly chess is a loser.Both,Kramnik and Topalov,should be banned.
when i play tournies i spend more time than kramnik in the loo.. so wats the fuss.. i have the biggest bladder on earth and kramnik has the second. but i know his chess is better than mine
let the games begin…someone start the clocks
What I think is this:
1) Both players, and especially their managers, have really managed to blow up a wonderful opportunity to heal deep wounds in the chess community.
2) There is nothing really new. Champions have always behaved like ‘prima donas’, not all, but a lot of them.
3) Nodoby has to go to the bathroom 50 times per game.
4) If there had been cameras in the bathroom, or no windows in the bathrooms, or escorts, I would be on Kramnik’s side.
5) FIDE should ban all windows from future bathrooms.
6) Peeing accompanied by an escort is not as bad as blowing a world championship match.
7) This match is now FUBAR. Nothing to do, unless Kramnik stops demanding that his bathroom be opened, sit down the board, hold it, and destroy Topalov with a mate in 30 moves.
8) Call it stress, but they are behaving ridiculously from our perspective.
9) Topalov should have accepted the ruling by FIDE and stop that nonsense of not shaking hands and separate conferences.
10) Kramnik should have said what the heck I will play you with or without bathrooms and prove that he is superior to Topalov.
shame on Topalov and his management.
For sure Kramnik did not use a comp, the way he played was too imprecise.
Topalov is losing and they just want to change the tide with unfairness.
I am rooting for Kramnik now, who is a little boring, but at least a gentleman.
if gaz was two matches down,,, he will definately uncock some TNTs
roper franc are you a lawyer or chess player?
Wholly, totally agree with the last post. Particularly the last point – imagine how stupid Toplalov would have looked if Kramnik had just said “fine” and got on with it!
Then again paranoia and emtional immaturity do seem to be almost essential to top-level chess (among the men anyway!)
If Kramnik were sitting on the board now, waiting for Topalov to show up, I would agree with you that Kramnik is being the biggest person. But he is, purportedly, waiting for someone to open his bathroom and refusing to sit (at the board) until they do so. That is not a gentleman. Neither of them has behaved as one.
Jrt on the playchess server said something halarious I just have to post here:
Toilet Gambit Declined Variation
Jose from Hammond, IN, USA
What on earth is Kramnik thinking? Just say ok and get on with it.. geez
why didn’t FIDE just go up to both parties and say?
“We have a new situation. Kramnik is using an area of the playing hall that is not under surveillance too often and the other party smells foul play. How can we impose security measures without impeding each persons individual style of playing?”
I think both parties should have just negotiated new restrictions and continued.
If they make up rules and hand it down one party will always be disappointed.
The recent cheating at the world open was real. The arbiter was from DC and we know him. I read his comments. The cheater used his radio hearing aid in the bathroom. The sad fact : more sophisticated techniques are quite possible – e.g. radio device in the foot, with coded stimuli. Wouldn’t require a potty break. In the long run this is a threat to human chess. Of course traditional sandbagging has been common at the WO almost forever. A friend of mine knew a Bulgarian master who was wiping up the expert section 20 years ago. etc. etc.
Details would be interesting : how much did Danailov exaggerate??
Reasonable but respectful cautions make sense for a $1M match. I don’t think FIDE spent enough serious effort to create these yet.
Anonymous Frank
concerned coffee drinker (~;
I still have the hope that Kramnik will come to his senses, put the private bathroom demand on hold for the time being, and sit down to play some serious chess. During today’s game, if he has to go to the bathroom, he can use the designated one, and if he has to walk, he can walk in the stage or the relaxation room. Just for today. Score a clean victory against Topalov, and shut him up forever. Then demand that your bathroom be reopened, even if the window is sealed.
That is my hope. However, as time goes by, I see it less likely. Kramnik, with little time left in the clock, would be less likely to accept to play. And if this game is lost on time by Kramnik, which is unfair in a sense, Topalov won’t want to give that point back after renegotiations.
So in my mind it is like: either Kramnik sits in the next 30 mins or we can get used to the idea of two pseudo- self-proclaimed world champs for a long time to come.
(BTW, iniscrit, I am no lawyer. http://www.rp-f.com)
“This is precisely the reason why I suggested for chess to have a Chess Commissioner, independent from FIDE and ACP.”
We cannot accept your suggestion, because it wasn’t made before the match. Sorry.
Oh and another things, any party that pulls out should forfeit their $500,000 and should be banned from FIDE events for two years…
“Some agree that 40-50 trips to the bathroom per game is unreasonable. Some think that Kramnik is entitled to go to the bathroom 100 times a game if he wants and Danailov is wrong for protesting.”
Some think that it’s not anyones business to make public comments about the match.
a SECOND bathroom should not be that hard for Kirsan Ilyumzhinov to secure in his whole country.
Topolov should check it out himself if he is concerned. His manager is obviously incapable.
Anyone who doesn’t shake hands should be a pawn down.
I was actually rooting strongly for Topolov to win before the match , although I predicted Kraminik would win. I thought it wouod be closer though.
Some of us remember the “flies found in the light fixture” headline from the Fischer-Spassky match (not Korchnoi-Karpov?!) after one of many many protests. We also remember threats against Korchnoi’s wife (but not his mistress). BUT – we have also read reports that Fischer’s own concerns about Russians throwing games in the Interzonal were valid.
This is the first flare-up in a close match which Danailov is afraid to lose without a single victory, after mouthing off flagrantly. According to the Fischer-Spassky experience, it would be a mistake for Kramnik to accept the tantrums. He SHOULD, however, be provoked to win this game as white.
Anonymous Frank
Reporting from the site seems so inadequate. Isn’t there is supposed to be press coverage of the match? Where are the current reports?
All facts point to the fact that Vladimir and Veselin may be gay, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Was there any official statements? Where to look for news?
“Keeping in view the mistakes made by both players in earlier games, we can guess that none of them were cheating.”
Your guess is obviously an uneducated one.
Good for Kramnik, he deserves to have a bathroom in a civillized world,Kirsan Ilyumzhinov is not civillized.
Americans started cheating using earphones first. Shame on you.
“They are each paid $500,000 tax free to play this match for the chess highest honor. They should both behave honorably!”
Susan, you’re way off base here. Please stick to commenting baseball instead.
“WIN WITH GRACE, LOSE WITH DIGNITY!(TM)”
Maybe you shouldn’t have trademarked that. At the moment, Kramnik could use some grace and Topalov could use some dignity.
Or maybe it’s the other way around.
chess was flushed down the toilet by Kirsan Ilyumzhinov
It’s all staged.
The rematch will get triple the $$$
Apparently the rest room is a lounge with refreshments and live video connected to a bathroom, so it’s not as though Kramnik is nervously peeing non-stop.
It’s consumed. Topalov won on time.
so..just wondering…Has Kram gone to the toilet yet?? 😉
It is official: 0-1, the point is Topalov’s. See FIDE website.
It looks like Krapnik vs Turdalot
Sooner or later someone is going to lift the lid on this scandal…
Susan,
Is Topo still sitting at the board alone with the clock running? If so, is it correct that the game is forfeit if the opponent does not arrive one hour after the clock was started?
Thanks,
Milty
Official site also confirms 0-1 Topalov wins on time.
http://www.worldchess2006.com/main.asp?id=918
This is tragic for the world of chess. Although I favor the aggressive play of Topalov over Kramnik, I feel Topalov has acted quite immature. First, he has no concrete evidence that Kramnik is cheating. His entire premise is based on Kramnik’s bathroom visits. And after most of his demands are agreed to, he still judges Kramnik a cheater and will not shake his hand. How unbecoming of a champion! Based on Kramnik’s reaction, he’s upset over principles. Why? It seems to me because he hasn’t cheated. If in fact, the cheating allegation is false, then his reaction is justifiable, whereas Topalov’s reaction is boorish and immature.
I think Topalov isn’t thinking straight. I believe his character has been tainted. When the dust settles and it is determined that cheating was not involved, Topalov may not just be losing a title, but much more.
Drama drama drama!
Give Kramnik back his smoking room!
That’s it! Kramnik can’t smoke in the new bathroom…and Kramnik can’t play well without smoking!
Conclusion: Smoking makes you play chess better!
Susan, I recall something like you lost your Women’s WCC title after FIDE stripped it from you.
This involved you refusing to play because the conditions were not ideal for you, right? IIRC after you having just had a child.
Don’t you think Kramnik is in a somewhat similar situation?
I am somewhat surprised that you seem to think that Kramnik should just play on after a contract has been breached to his detriment.
Isn’t that just a matter of principle? After all one could similarly argue that you were physically able to play for the WWCC, so why didn’t you? IMO it would set a dangerous precedent if Kramnik were to say ‘oh well, let’s just play’.
Next thing then Danailov will ask the drinking water to be reduced (‘Topalov doesn’t drink so much’) then God knows what?!
I for the life of me can’t figure any reason (well yes I can, mindgames) why Danailov or Topalov mind Kramnik pacing up and down in his own private rest room/bathroom, so I fail to see why their formal complaint should lead to Kramnik’s toilet being closed.
the *contract* includes provision for appeals to be handled and resolved by an appeals committee. kramnik refuses to abide by the committee’s decision on the grounds that it’s members are topolov favored. so, it is kramnik that is breaking the contract.
“The written decision of the Appeals Committee arising from any dispute in respect of these regulations shall be final.”
“It also sheds a dark light on the Kasparov vs Kramnik match, since Kasparov complained (just like Topalov) that Kramnik made too many trips to the bathroom!”
Utter c**p.
As Eric Schiller (arbiter then) and Ray Keene (organiser) have repeatedly pointed out on chessgames.com, Kramnik was assisted by the referee or assistent-referee when visiting the toilet. They did not see or hear anything suspicious – just the ‘natural noises’.
Makes me wonder why the appeals committe did not simply ASK the Kramnik team what they thought of that instead of just locking the bathrooms (which as it so happens were part of the contract agreed upon by Topalov, Danailov, and the rest of them)
anonymous said:
“As Eric Schiller (arbiter then) and Ray Keene (organiser) have repeatedly pointed out on chessgames.com, Kramnik was assisted by the referee or assistent-referee when visiting the toilet. They did not see or hear anything suspicious – just the ‘natural noises’.”
They did not use visual inspection the whole time (the toilet door was closed), a perfect moment to produce the small chess set.
phil harrys said:
“Each of the rest rooms is equipped with a full size demo board, so why would he need to sneak a small set in?”
If this is true and the demo board is functional then the organizers are very misguided since Kramnik can just move the pieces right there and defeat the “horizon limit” (for example while calculating a tactical line by reproducing the visualized end of it on the board you can expand the horizon limit and so on multiple times). If this is true, then maybe Kramnik just do not want anyone to know that in this case he is using the very same demo board provided by the organizers! (unlike in the Kasparov match were he could be able to use his small chessboard while in the toilet).
Both restrooms have demo boards, and both are in full view of the arbiters camera that looks into the restroom.
These conditions were agreed by both teams before the match.
The contract for the match was signed after those conditions were agreed. The contract also states that they cannot be changed without the agreement of both teams.
This is not the true point of Danailovs protests, I would have thought that was obvious.
Kramnik doesn’t say why he needs to use the toilet 30-50 times per game when playing, though some claim it’s a medical condition. This is suspicious.
As noted earlier, Kramnik sat out the whole fifth game without using the toilet once, as far as we know. He sure didn’t need the toilet 10 times during that hour, or it would have been noted that he left the restroom to go to the common bathroom many times. This is even more suspicious.
There’s no dishonor in admitting to a medical condition, if that is why Kramnik is using the bathroom a lot. So his refusal to say something (that could be disproved if not true) is … suspicious.