Elista, October 4, 2006
Jorge Vega, Chairman of the Appeals Committee of the WCM
Boris Kutin, Member of the Appeals Committee of the WCM
To: FIDE president Kirsan Ilyumzhinov
Dear Mr. President,
Based of the very new facts with which we are not informed for a long time, that during the inspection they have founded computer cable going to the toilets of the rest rooms and being surprised that you are asking Mr. Markopoulos and Mr. Azmaiparashavili to leave Elista immediately and inspect situation in Batumi we would like to inform you that we do not like to continue as official members of the event and we are resigning as members of the Appeals Committee of the Match for the World Championship.
Truly yours,
Jorge Vega
Boris Kutin
This was released on the website VeselinTopalov.net. I am not sure why this (actual copy of the letter) was never made public before by any party or the media. They also released other information here. Read and form your own opinion.
Kramnik is a slime ball.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Danailov were to come out and say, ‘I have seen these videos and I accept that some people think my behvaiour in them was suspicious. In fact this was normal for me: I am a nervous guy and that is how I act. I assure everyone that nothing improper was going on. However, I understand that my behaviour has caused suspicion and it is important that players are above suspicion. From now on I shall not appear in the auditorium at events where Veselin is playing and will stay in the press room.’
He won’t, of course – doesn’t have the class. But if these cheating allegations against his protege bothered him, he could defuse them easily.
Of course, there is another possible explanation for why he won’t do this.
Percy
>>Kramnik is a slime ball.
LOL.
It’s hard to have any sympathy for Topalov when he’s still engaged in the exact same behavior that he’s decrying. The judge would find it hard also. That lawsuit against Breutigam will never be filed. It would be laughed out of court.
“I am not sure why this was never made public before by any party or the media.”
What are you talking about? The resignation of the second Appeals Committee was well known.
Looks like Toppie is look for some counterplay with this attack but his position seems pretty much resignable.
J.
Ugly play by Kramnik and his company. They released baseless videos. While the Topalov team releases documents. Which one would you believe?
Kramnik didnt release the video.
Yes Susan this was made public. However, a photocopy of the letter was not necessarily published. Not sure. There was so much noise being made by Danailov and Topalov at the time that this was considered minor news at the time.
Publishing this letter is just another attempt by Topalov / Danailov to divert attention away from themselves. Another attempt to change the subject. These actions can only point toward their guilt. These are the actions of guilty people.
Innocent people act very differently.
Kramnik has never said that he felt Topalov might have cheater or anything against Topalov. Why do people keep attacking Kramnik. It is to divert attention away from Topalov.
Kramnik has been a total gentleman with grace and dignity through this entire mess.
Danailov and Topalov have acted terribly. Many actions by them only point the finger back at themselves as the guilty party.
I like what Percy wrote above. That would sound like a good honest thing to say. An innocent person would be anxious to PROVE his innocense.
If I were innocent I would want to say.
Look no danailov and watch me win. Lock me in a sealed metal room and I will defeat everyone. I want to prove I can beat everyone and do it with no help. I want to prove my innocense. I want to prove I am the greatest chess player. I will submit to any and all scientific provisions to prove I am the best chess player.
He never proclaims that he wants to prove his innocense. He proclaims that Kramnik cheats as if that makes it ok for him to cheat. He proclaims Do Not Look at My Guilt. but Look at Kramnik’s Guilt. Those are the words of a guilty person. That is the way guilt trys to hide. It works very effectively except for those people who are aware of the game. Now you are aware of the game.
>>Ugly play by Kramnik and his company. They released baseless videos.>>
LOL, Kramnik is secretly a Dutch spectator. Whatever.
Kramnik hasn’t given Topalov the time of day since the match ended. As World Champion, he’s get real challengers to prepare for, of which Topalov is not one.
“Kramnik has been a total gentleman with grace and dignity through this entire mess”
A Toilet gentleman !Go play chess “with grace and dignity” in your Elista WC!
Sorry to say that but there is no any other sport that would allow and provide fertile conditions for such scandals.
The problem is neither in topalov nor in kramnik. the problem is in the chess federation.
The chess federation should regulate all these. the chess federation shouldorganize competitions in a way that no cheating will be possible and no insultin allegations could be made.
So my opinion is that all this mess is absolutely normal and as a result of common human feelings. When there are no rules and regulations but when there are a lot of financial interests and pride – human nature tends to create problems and scandals. It is up to the ruling people on the top who have to create the necessary conditions for the sportsmanship to grow.
To the anonymous poster that I just deleted the message,
As I mentioned many times before, don’t come to my blog and insult me. You can express your opinion about the topic but leave the insults out.
I have never supported Topalov or Kramnik. I like both players in person as I know both of them for a long time. I like both of their styles. But that does not mean that I have to like how they behave in Elista.
I am fair and balance. I report news from both sides and not hide one or the other as in some other sites.
I have never said that the investigation of Danailov does not have any merit. I said that the evidence so far in the video is weak.
I also said that even though Kramnik has not said anything publicly, it does look bad for him when a German chess journalist with previous connection to his manager and his match against Leko, a Russian newspaper and the ACP, an organization which he helped started lead the charges / investigation.
This has been pointed out by many people. I think about chess and my interest is chess, not Kramnik or Topalov. That is why I suggested for both to come out publicly and end this mess. You may enjoy the war. I do not. I want this matter to go away ASAP.
Susan Polgar
http://www.PolgarChess.com
Susan said:
>>Read and form your own opinion.
>>
My opinion is that either veselintopalov.net is written either by or for children.
His article starts off:
“In the last several months the mud throwing against Topalov has continued without an obvious reason.”
Aside from the time error (the recent round of accusations against Topalov began at Wijk, not several months ago), to claim to be able to see no reason why anyone would be mad at Topalov staggers the imagination. Does he think we’re idiots? Or does he think we don’t know what’s been going on the last few months?
Then when he continued by claiming that his site never wanted to publish baseless accusations, that’s when I stopped reading. He’s not taking his readers at all seriously. If I want that kind of treatment, I can get plenty of it from your anonymous readers here. I expect better from a Super GM.
Here’s a reasonable challenge. Find somebody, ANYBODY, willing to make the case for Topalov. (Not you, Susan, you’re determined to remain neutral in anything). But if there’s anything at all to Topalov’s charges, let’s hear even one titled player who wasn’t part of his team in Elista come out, say so, and put their name behind it. Just one. Cause we’ve heard whispers about Topalov from many quarters, but not a word against Kramnik that didn’t come straight from Team Topalov, or from anonymous cranks. If not a single titled player anywhere will agree with him, then clearly he’s got nothing.
As part of the way veselintopalov.net reports news, we never wanted to publish baseless speculations. It is time to put the pieces on the table and connect the puzzle. Some parts of it we will analyze, some we will leave for the audience to think about it, but the picture is starting to get clear.
THERE IS ONLY 1 OPNION : 2 important members have resigned their position after having found cable for computer… Susan this is not an opnion, is a FACT.
I’d like your opnion about this FACT.
Regards
Good day to everybody
Dario
“I also said that even though Kramnik has not said anything publicly, it does look bad for him when a German chess journalist with previous connection to his manager and his match against Leko, a Russian newspaper and the ACP, an organization which he helped started lead the charges / investigation.”
I dont see this reflecting on Kramnik all that much. Perhaps the chessbase article, but not the rest. Certainly not the video.
And to nowhere near the degree that Danailovs book reflects on the pair of them.
Being fair and balanced does not mean that because 2 views exist, you should support them both equally. It means that you objectively review the evidence and provide a balanced opinion of it.
If some people say the Earth is flat, and some say it is round, is it fair and balanced to support both views?
I dont think an investigation of Topalov will prove anything, or achieve anything more than giving a forum for everyone with suspicions about Topalov to come forward.
Topalov, lets remember, raised his complaint about kramnik at the time and at most…there is the suspicion that somehow he connected to a UTP5 cable during games I-IV, and this isnt widely believed so further allegations wont prove anything either.
Making it go away – will not be achieved by a 3 brass monkey strategy of see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil..but by secure playing conditions which are not such fertile ground for allegations to spawn.
For myself, Id love to just *know* if either of them cheated, wouldnt you? I dont suppose we ever will though. Not for sure.
J.
Hi Fred,
don’t waste your time with such childish articles and blogs.
please use your time wise. The next chess WChampionship is close. You should prepare the Kramnik’s toilet – not waste time in chats.
P.S. veselintopalov.net is Topalov’s site but it is obvious for everybody except you that the artcles are not written by Topalov himself!
So you should blame the site host for his bad English and poor journalistic skills. Besides that some facts presented there are good taking into consideration.
They have resigned for what?
They ‘found’ a cable that led NOT to a computer, but to NOTHING.
Given that great piece of evidence, it is CLEARLY OBVIOUS that Kramnik had the KGB in the loo passing moves to him…
You Topalov maniacs have no shortage of conspiracy theories…
We true chess fans understand how disconcerting it may be that your man Topalov *could* have been cheating all along, and your dreams of him becoming world champion begin to dissipate like smoke in a windstorm…
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!
“You Topalov maniacs have no shortage of conspiracy theories…”
What to say then for the “picking-into-the-nose” conspiracy?
No comment needed!
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!
turkish->english mess!
>>P.S. veselintopalov.net is Topalov’s site but it is obvious for everybody except you that the artcles are not written by Topalov himself!
So you should blame the site host for his bad English and poor journalistic skills. Besides that some facts presented there are good taking into consideration.
>>
Think you need to read what I said a little more carefully. I never said Topalov wrote the article personally. Nor did I cite bad English or poor journalistic skills).
I have no idea if the article presented good facts or not. As I said, it treated its readers like idiots, so I stopped reading after 2 paragraphs.
But no matter. As I say, if Topalov’s charges have anything to them at all, then some titled player not directly associated with him will eventually come out and say so. You seem to agree that that’s not too much to ask for. After all, if he’s going to have any success, then somebody’s going to have to agree with him some time, right?
That’s a good point. It shouldn’t be asking too much to find just one GM somewhere willing to support Topalov’s accusations. It’s 4 months later, and he’s still got nobody in his camp. You’d think the Bulgarians would support him at least, but no.
Karpov and Judit Polgar support Topalov. They said he didn’t cheat.
Strange thoughts. No need to organize a campaign if you have such solid proofs, photos and signatures. Why doesn’t one of those guys come forward and say “that’s not my signature”.
should I say that your comment should be deleted 😉
Susan, it seems some people are very much indignant on Topalov’s behaviour as a potential cheat but these same people can not refrain from using words like “bitch” (sorry to cite it)for a lady who is doing a great job not only as a chess player and politician but also as a pure chess fan.
Please don’t delete this post so that people can see what sort of people are these.
🙁
it was already deleted
“I am fair and balance. I report news from both sides and not hide one or the other as in some other sites.”
What a bitch.
I don’t believe either side cheated. I think though they are doing something worse, they are buring down the structure that supports them both, professional chess. I wish FIDE would take control of this situation and stop this public pissing contest between both camps before any more damage is done. It’s time to protect your investments gentlemen, start acting like grown-ups!
Susan tries to stay neutral, but she constantly gets insulted by Kramnik fans who don’t like anyone neutral. You either share their position or you are as bad as Danailov. I can understand why Susan starts showing some bias on the subject. No one likes to be insulted all the time. It is normal to these things to backfire.
Focus on the facts, Fred. Your efforts to focus on anything else but the facts are pathetic.
Did you read the resignation letter of the committee?
Come on!
Tell me that you accept as normal the resignation of the second committee and the fact about the UTP 5 cable in the bathroom which was visited so frequently by Kramnik?
Just give me a straight answer – yes or no?
The facility was built for the match so nobody can pretend that “You see – the cable was accidentally there” because somebody might need to connect a computer in one of the bathrooms.
I watched the movie carefully (by the way it was cut and pasted – removing some parts of it and repeating others) and I see the nervous gestures which Danailov makes (cut and pasted and repeated carefully) while Topalov is concentrated on the board but I don’t consider this an evidence.
>>Karpov and Judit Polgar support Topalov. They said he didn’t cheat. >>
Ah ah. Read it again. I’m not talking about the charges against Topalov, I mean the charges by Topalov. Nobody supports those. Including Karpov, who had some pretty unkind words about them during Elista.
Some people (not Karpov or Judit), see something in the charges against Topalov, but so far nobody supports Topalov’s own charges. The thought occurs, that continuing to push charges that nobody buys is making it harder for Topalov to get any sympathy for being on the receiving end. Ya think?
Sounds even to me:
Dangling Cable = Hand Signals
Is this a draw or will someone win?
Statement that Karpov supports Topalov is far from truth. He believes Topalov is not cheating, but his opinion on team Topalov Elista and post-Elista behavior is far from supportive.
Finally we know that cables were found not only in Kramnik’s bathroom, as Danailov constantly said during last 4 months.
May be, they had to demolish the whole building to find even more cables, some of it going over arbiter’s room or personnel closets. Does this mean, arbiters and/or building personnel were involved to transmission of computer moves to Kramnik? I can’t belive Danailov missed this obvious sign of cheating from those Russian evils!
Regarding Mr. Kutin and Mr. Vega, immediately after they were assigned their Elista posts, there was a heated discussion everywhere about their personalities and relationships with Azmaiparashvili&Co.
>>didocus said…
Focus on the facts, Fred. Your efforts to focus on anything else but the facts are pathetic.>>
I agree it’s pathetic. All I ask is for one GM to agree that Topalov’s charges bear examination, and you ask like I’ve asked him to climb Mount Everest.
There are GM’s who don’t like Russia, as well as other Bulgarian GM’s. You can’t get even a single one of those to sign on, and have the nerve to blame me for it?
As you say, pathetic.
>>Tell me that you accept as normal the resignation of the second committee and the fact about the UTP 5 cable in the bathroom which was visited so frequently by Kramnik?
Just give me a straight answer – yes or no?
>>
Heck, I’ll not only give you a straight answer, I’ll give you an answer from the mouth of Topalov himself:
“I believe that his play is fair, and my decision to continue the match proves it. We are humans, and sometimes we make mistakes.”
Well, well, I think Topalov was scared to death to say that. The Russian government did not allow the presidential airplane to land in Elista and take them out of Russia. They were forced to play.
Topolov has Kramnik dead to rights! Think about all the information that cam through that cable !
What more do you need! It is time to stop talking and suspend Kramnik for the 10 years he deserves!!!
Those hand signals from Danilov are incriminating! And they have it on VIDEO no less!
Suspend Topalov for the 10 years he deserves!
Duh.. there is a book published about the Kramnik/Elista incident. The signals from Topalov are circumstantial and merely hearsay.
Dear Duh:
hearsay ( ) n. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor. Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal.
A video tape is not hearsay!
Its all political games. Neither Topalov nor Kramnik cheated.
>>Well, well, I think Topalov was scared to death to say that. The Russian government did not allow the presidential airplane to land in Elista and take them out of Russia. They were forced to play. >>
LOL. He wasn’t too scared to start the whole scandal in the first place, and conveniently make himself the villain in the eyes of the world by breaking FIDE Ethics Rules.
You know your case is weak when you have to explain away your own guys statements.
Maybe he’s just in it for the money. He said Kramnik was innocent when that’s what was needed to win the prize money, and he says he’s guilty when that’s what’s needed to sell books. He doesn’t sound very reliable. I think Fred is right. Let’s hear anybody else who agrees with him.
The toilet is old news, guys. Didn’t you read Topalov’s ABC.es interview? The new claim is that Kramnik received signals at the board through a hidden implant. The toilet is now irrelevant.
Geez, if you’re going to believe anything Topalov says without question, at least listen to him.
I think it is time to ban all anonymous postings here. I see many anonymous guys talking nonsense, but how to tell them that without insulting some other anonymouses who are posting OK?
I have to repeat myself posting again that the video is doctored – conveniently some parts are cut other repeated. And al you can see are nervous gestures from Danailov and Topalov completely focused on the game.
Nobody answered my question – after reading the resignation letter do you find normal such a resignation of the second commitee after finding computer cables in the bathroom for a facility (read carefully the next part) built especially for the match.
Two small factual additions needed:
The Bulgarian airplane was not singled out and refused landing. There is only one airport in Kalmykia and it was closed through the whole event. THe journalists also had to drive a couple hours from a neighboring region. This was due to events developing long before the match.
Second, the UTP 5 was found in the wall and please note, the building was not originally designed for chess matches. It is a new government office building, and was remodelled to provide the player facillities. It is perhaps odd if there were walls without UTP 5 in them.
Susan said:
I also said that even though Kramnik has not said anything publicly, it does look bad for him when a German chess journalist with previous connection to his manager and his match against Leko, a Russian newspaper and the ACP, an organization which he helped started lead the charges / investigation.
If you know that Topalov has transgressed repeatedly, and don’t know that Kramnik has done it at all, but only suspect it, is it entirely fair to lump them together?
Paris,
Here is the picture:
http://www.veselintopalov.net/images/64.jpg
and you can clearly see that the cables are not in the wall.
Here is the article about the building:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3306
Quote “fully reconstructed Government House conference hall. New furniture will be installed, all equipment, including electronics, will be new, there will be free wireless Internet channels for everyone… there will be special equipment to create an “electronic vacuum” around the playing hall”.
Accidentally we have UTP cables in the bathroom ceiling.
What is this nonsense about the cable found in the wall? It was found in the suspended ceiling.
The building was built for the match. Of course they were not planning to bring it down after the match, so they put some cables and all other stuff in the ceilings and walls to have the building ready for its after-match life. At least this is how Elista officials explained the Internet cable in the ceiling. Not wasting money is good, but maybe they had to deffer putting communication cables at that time. It looks very strange to prevent all wireless communications and to put wires so easily accessible. If someone does not know what suspended ceiling is, please ask me I will explain. Just don’t talk nonsense about needing a hammer to access the cable.
I think the most suspicious thing is the ladder. I mean, why did Kramnik need a ladder in the bathroom, if it wasn’t to climb up the ceiling, dismantle it, and get access to hidden cables so that he could link them up to the device he’d smuggled through the metal detectors?
Talk about missing the wood for the trees.
“they have founded computer cable”
they have founded some english problems as well.
Quote:
Susan said:
I also said that even though Kramnik has not said anything publicly, it does look bad for him when a German chess journalist with previous connection to his manager and his match against Leko, a Russian newspaper and the ACP, an organization which he helped started lead the charges / investigation. —-
If Susan says she is neutral and if she writes such a nonsense then it’s crystal clear that Susan is NOT neutral. Perhaps this was common in Hungary but in Germany we have a free country and if someone independently (working for a big newspaper, not one of the Boulevard) makes observations in Wijk and if he has evidence by video clips then it’s nonsense to claim a former cooperation with the manager of Kramnik. How this should influence anything what the journalist is actually writing? Susan comes from Hungary and perhaps there all that was a common failure among professional experts but in Germany this is unknown. If Susan really wants to be known as neutral she should apologize for such dirty messages. BTW for months now Susan implies as if we all couldnt really know exactly what has happened, but this is untrue. During the Corus tournament Topalow repeated his nonsense allegations against Kramnik in an official interview with the Dutch NOS, talking with GM Bohm, and therefore it is well allowed that Topalow left the position of soundness. What everybody attributed to his manager is now Topalow’s own position, and that position is nonsense and hopefully this will be stated by the FIDE too.
I think it’s better to remain anonymous here because of the underlying craziness of the whole affair – started by the Bulgarian team in Elista.
I wouldn’t argue with anonymous about the ladder if it wasn’t about Kramnik’s frequent visits to the bathroom. Just never before neither after that match he had this behavior.
Otherwise it’s just a network cable in the ceiling. There are hundreds of ways to attach infrared or wireless device and use it.
To the Anonymous above:
Yes, Bulgarian team started that craziness in Elista, but this is because they were Bulgarians. If they were Germans (we are free people in Germany, you know), they would not have said anything crazy. In Germany, as a free country, we don’t say anything crazy. Well Hensel may accuse sometimes the other team of intentions to plant electronic devices in his client’s bathroom, but this is only because the other team are Bulgarians. If they were Germans, they would not have been suspected in anything like this. In Germany we, as free people, have the rights to be not suspected in anything crazy.
I am glad to see they found the “smoking cable” and I bet it is still smoking hot from the chess moves that funneled through there from Fritz!
And yes, good point! Why was there a ladder in the bathroom of Kramnik? This is even more damning evidence! Of course Kramnik needed to get the cables out of the ceiling to stick them in his laptop! Duh…
This is way more incriminating than if they were just in the wall!! Thanks for the photos they convinced me!
All I can say is that it was too bad Kramnik did not fall from the ladder and break his leg during one of the games! That would have required some real explaining!
you people are either idiots or trolls, possibly both. The ladder is there for the investigation not during the tournament.
i think topalov should address these cheating rumors and file possible lawsuits. i have to admit the funniest part of that video is the start where topalov stares blankly at dainalov. that was hilarious. i was rolling over laughing at that. the video shows theres no proof of anything. a pointed finger to the chin? come on what could that mean move your bishop. its ridiculous.
wolverine
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Yes, Danailov has already filed a lawsuit against the German journalist.
To Chopin Liker,
you have it wrong. A German journalist could have it all crazy and wrong, but then accuse him of being wrong, but not because he knows Hensel, that was my point. Of course Germans in general can be as wrong as Bulgarians or Hungarians.
i love ‘i love chopin’
The discussion is about the resignation letter.
Kirsan had a rough talk with Putin, came back, fired the first committee.
The match had to be finished. Next we see the how and why the second committee resigned. Poor Topalov (almost sounds like in the Matrix – poor Morpheous).
I was surprised by Danailov’s answer when a German journalist commented that Kramnik would never feel comfortable about a rematch in Bulgaria and asked whether Topalov would agree on a rematch in Russia and eventually when. The immediate answer was “Give us 48 hours and we are ready for such a rematch”.
“I have never supported Topalov or Kramnik.”
I can’t believe Susan has the nerve to say this. Not even when she kept saying Kramnik should give away his title to Topalov for the best of chess?
Some people have no shame.
Aaron,
If you quote Susan, please provide the link to that quote!
Otherwise you’ll have to excuse.
>>And yes, good point! Why was there a ladder in the bathroom of Kramnik? This is even more damning evidence! Of course Kramnik needed to get the cables out of the ceiling to stick them in his laptop! Duh…>>
The ladder was the real crime. They searched the players before the game and they missed that? Gimme a break.
Topalov noticed it, but didn’t know what it was. All he said was “Is that a ladder in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?”
Susan Polgar, Jan-5-06:
“I didn’t jump from FIDE. Kramnik did. I was a legit World Classical Champion. I won the Candidates Tournament. I beat 2 World Champions Chiburdanidze and Xie Jun for my title. Kramnik didn’t. Let’s not compare apples and oranges.
I also moved on and I’m trying to do good things for the chess community. Kramnik should do the same. We don’t need more division. It’s time for him to act like a Champion and turn his title over to Topalov.”
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=15162&kpage=173
“If they were Germans (we are free people in Germany, you know), they would not have said anything crazy. In Germany, as a free country, we don’t say anything crazy”
Germans,Robots,Germans,Robots,…….
Germans,Free Robots,Germans,Free Robots.
Cheers!
REGARDING THE LADDER:
Without the Ladder how did Kramnik get access to the cables in the ceiling? Either the Ladder had to be there or it was brought in after everymove – and that would have been seen on the videotape.
Aron,
Your quote must be viewed inside it’s context. At that time 01/05/2006, people were still under the impression of Topalov’s victory at St. Louis. Most of the fans considered him the legitimate World Champion. Even Kramnik friends such as Svidler praised him. Kasparov regarded him as such.
Kramnik had one title that looked rather imaginary and was only causing among the chess world. No one thought some unification match could possibly take place. So Susan suggested he do something noble and end the schism in chess.
Topalov was not obliged to play Kramnik at all. He decided to do it and thus created ground for the unification. This was a noble thing he did. But at that time no one thought he would risk everything and give Kramnik match. Kramnik resigning his claims to be a World Champion looked more likely and more fair I would say (considering his poor form).
So, Susan just said the obvious that was on the lips of thousands other chess players and fans.
Hi,
the facts are for Topalóv but the ‘newspapers’ against.
How the people could be so manipulated by media.
Regards
P.
The question about the ladder is tricky. From the photos we cannot tell exactly how high is the ceiling of that room. It looks high, but we don’t have a confirmed reference point. On the other end, Kramnik is a pretty tall guy. If this was the ceiling in my house, he would have touched the ceiling from the floor and be able to reached the cable by stepping on the toilet bowl.
My point is this. If at some moment Bulgarian team decided to look at the ceiling, then apparently they saw some possibility for a tall guy such as Kramnik’s to be able to reach there. Otherwise, why bother?
“the Kramnik’s illness which could prevent him from a match you understand why she said this.”
Not at all ,go back and review the discussion. This was what she had said for a long time already. Also , Kramnik had declared himself willing to play; and had indeed even accepted the UEP bid; it was Topalov who had refused. Susan was simply singing along with the pro Topalov, anti Kramnik chorus, perhaps to score cheap points among the least reflecting of the chess fans
Concerning unfounded attacks to Ms Susan Polgar. Russian leader of revolution in 1917 Lenin has said ‘ who is not with us is being against us’. Then several milions people not supporting communist revolution were killed.
Susan is being objective and neutral but for people following philosophy mentioned earlier she is against.
Regards
P.
The anonymous who is so proud of Germany shall be more shy. Germany has started 2 world wars in XX century and because of them many milions of people were died.
The other nations are better examples.
Chopin,
another useless try to support Topalov and Susan all at once. How can I say this? Look at this:
In his interview with the Dutch NOS Topalov spoke almost for one hour about his views and future and also the Elista scandal and San Luis.
Then he said the thing that crushes both your and Susan’s opinions. He said that San Luis was the unification event! And that Elista was therefore his defending the title. He went on. Yes, he saw himself as the favorite!
Now come back and please explain how Susan was correct when she tried to advise Kramnik to give away his title! Tell me what she could have meant in context of the situation in January 2006.
And for all please explain what Susan could have meant with her headline that the Topalov suppoters would strike back (on the veselintopalov page). Just read the page carefully and I hope you will notice that there is more craziness in the whole presentation than should be expected from such a genial chessplayer. Both examples, the quote from Susan last year and now about the new step of the Topalov camp show me one thing without a doubt: that Susan believes herself that she’s neutral and for all superior to average ideas, but she isnt and her speech proves it.
IMO Topalov has gone so far off all common sense in Elista, that no neutral observer can back up him and also not if one has some reasons to oppose Kramnik. Topalov, to be exact, has offended chess as such and if Susan doesnt see this, she has a real problem. You just cant back up Topalov for the crazy crap what he campaigned for in Elista. Therefore Susan is also wrong in her attack on Short. As long as Topalov doesnt take back his foolish allegations from Elista and also Wijk 2007 he cannot be regarded as a reasonable figure in chess politics. Susan herself had tried to seperate Topalov, the player, from his manager and she was very unhappy in her commentaries on Danailov, but what is if we now must realise that Topalov himself thinks this way what Susan called unprofessional at the time?
Anonymous,
Unfortunately I did not get what you said. I get it as sentences written in English, but I could not find the meaning.
For example you are quoting Topalov saying that for him St. Louis was the “reunification”. This is true. Legally St. Louis was the reunification according to the FIDE documents. This is why people expected Kramnik to bow and stop the schism. How this quote proves that Susan was pro-Topalov and anti-Kramnik, if the mood among 80% of the chess fans was similar at that time?
The rest of your post had me completely confused about the principles of communication using human language (any language).
Grow up guys.
Rastamann
FIRST: Kramnik reams Topalov using Deep Fritz from his bathroom in the WCC.
SECOND: Kramnik accuses Topalov of cheating at Corus.
When will the Kramnik campaign end? Isn’t it enough that he is the Unified World Chess Champion now. When will he stop? With the complete destruction of Topalov?
Kramnik needs to go!
>>SECOND: Kramnik accuses Topalov of cheating at Corus.>>
What’s the point of lying about it? We all know Kramnik hasn’t accused him. Even if he did, that would only mean that he’s just as bad as somebody you like.
It’s nice of you to sacrifice your character for Topalov, and nicer still to admit that he can’t be defended any other way, but it doesn’t change anything.
Hee hee, hey I’ve got a better one for the Topalistas! Kramnik not only accused Topalov, he’s going to write a book about it! Can you imagine stooping that low?
“I think it’s better to remain anonymous here because of the underlying craziness of the whole affair – started by the Bulgarian team in Elista.”
So convenient.
So bequem.
Gentile,
point is that it doesnt make too much sense to argue if people dont respect basic logic and ethics. Again, Topalov could somehow be defended in a scenario where his manager somewhat exaggerated in a battle but the player remains sober – that was always Susan’s pretty decent position as I could understand her. But now, at least after the events in Wijk (Topalov on video in his hotel and Topalov on NOS interviewed by Dutch GM Hans Bohm!) it is clear that it’s Topalov himself and not only his manager. With his crazy accusations and insults against Kramnik as a player Topalov hurts chess as such. It’s high time now that FIDE gives a verdict. IMO Topalov is no longer a respectable chessplayer and he should be excluded from official tournaments until he corrects and apologizes.
Sure, we’ll please the anomymous mice by banning Topalov. We’ll be left to watch the cheating video squad of Breutigam, Bareev, Hensel, Tregubov, Savinov, and Frederick the Chessbase play a tournament instead. Short will be in charge of the sinister acts. Brilliant idea! Good for chess!!
D.
Topalov is merely pointing out that the world is against him. If FIDE won’t investigate then he has to do it himself. A fair process, unlike the one conducted by the German reporter and newspaper.
Anyone who besmirches Topalov’s character should be sued!
LIFETIME BAN FOR THIS ETHICALLY BANKRUPT TOPA!
>>The anonymous who is so proud of Germany shall be more shy. Germany has started 2 world wars in XX century and because of them many milions of people were died.
The other nations are better examples. >>
Hmm, wasn’t Bulgaria on Germany’s side in both World Wars? If this is your criteria, you can’t possibly support Topalov.
>>didocus said…
Yes, Danailov has already filed a lawsuit against the German journalist. >>
Not very likely. You can’t sue someone for behavior you’re engaged in yourself. It would be laughed out of court. Most likely he isn’t going to file suit, he just said he would to energize the rubes. No offense.
>>Dimi said…
Sure, we’ll please the anomymous mice by banning Topalov. We’ll be left to watch the cheating video squad of Breutigam, Bareev, Hensel, Tregubov, Savinov, and Frederick the Chessbase play a tournament instead.
>>
Hee hee, Dimi doesn’t like people who make these kind of accusations. I love watching the Topanuts bash their own guy without realizing it.
Anon: I think it’s better to remain anonymous here because of the underlying craziness of the whole affair – started by the Bulgarian team in Elista.
LOL, this is the funniest thing I’ve read in awhile. So what does Elista and the Bulgarian team have to do with your personal choice to remain a weasel?!
D.
Dimi said:
LOL, this is the funniest thing I’ve read in awhile. So what does Elista and the Bulgarian team have to do with your personal choice to remain a weasel?!
~~~~~~~~~~
There’s 90 some odd posts here. without giving us some clue which one you’re referring to, who’s going to read them all just to figure out what you’re talking about?
But just a little friendly advice, the reason nobody takes you Topalov guys seriously is that you’re so hypocritical. The same point keeps getting made over and over, that you’re denouncing the very same behavior you’ve supported for the last 4 months, and you just pretend not to hear it. That’s why Topalov is a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.
Sorry as I see it:
Topalov has the INTERNET CABLES
and Kramnik has the HAND SIGNALS.
Kramnik says the intenet cables mean nothing and Topalov says the hand signals mean nothing.
The people who wrote the NEWSPAPER ARTICLE knew Kramnik and the people who wrote the BOOK knew Topalov.
Obviously all this means SOMETHING and SOMEONE needs to get to the bottom of it.
Personally, I believe Topalov because he is a nicer guy and more forthcoming with the facts by assisting the people who wrote the book. Kramnik said he did not help with the article.
Agree. There doesn’t seem to be any way to defend Topalov honestly. All they can do is shout out accusations and take umbrage when they find themselves on the receiving end. Let’s just have the investigation and see what it turns up.
No!!!
GMs should be allowed to accuse others of cheating if needed! They just should not undertake the besmirching of character is all. Danilov has been very clear on this point – very clear!
How is one going to accuse another without besmirching of character!!!
The accusation of cheating is enough to cause irrepairable harm to one’s reputation in Chess!
Anon: …the reason nobody takes you Topalov guys seriously is that you’re so hypocritical.
Anon, “hypocritical” is a tricky word — if you need to ponder on something far easier then try to figure this thing out — why did Kramnik have to go to the toilet so many times and close the door behind him? It was on the videotape that was seen by the Appeals Committee. That has been established – that’s why they locked it. Why? Why do you feed us videos of dancing grandmas in Corus, when the most important video hasn’t been addressed? Then we’ll talk about hypocrisy.
Happy pondering,
D.
Dimi, I shouldn’t bother, but how about you answer this point?
Kramnik played at pretty much the same level in Torino, in Wijk, in the rapids in Elista, and in the rest of the match in Elista, as he did in the first four games at Elista. In your opinion is this because he was cheating on all those occasions, or because his cheating actually made no difference to his play, or what?
Susan, for the love of God will you introduce registration? All these anonymous f**kwits render your blog an embarrassment to the game, and I would have thought to you.
Percy
Percy talk to Susan with respect. You should apologize to Susan for these remarks.
Susan, for the love of God will you introduce registration? All these anonymous f**kwits render your blog an embarrassment to the game, and I would have thought to you.
Percy
Monday
Percy, that’s a good question. Let me answer it in the same Jesuit manner of yours: “Wouldn’t it be nice if Vladimir Borisovich would come forth and declare that he has understood the implications of unrestricted trips to private rooms and unobserved toilets during an important match”. No apology needed, just an acknowledgement.
This strategy of putting Team Topalov on the defensive through a barrage of nonsense deemed as “suspicion” and “circumstantial evidence” opened the wounds of Elista at a time when they had healed somewhat. Corus felt so good. And now that nonsense.
BTW, appreciate that you chose to put a name. That way we can follow a conversation and get somewhere, rather than sinking in mud.
Regards,
Dimi
Dimi hat gesagt…
Anon: I think it’s better to remain anonymous here because of the underlying craziness of the whole affair – started by the Bulgarian team in Elista.
LOL, this is the funniest thing I’ve read in awhile. So what does Elista and the Bulgarian team have to do with your personal choice to remain a weasel?!
D.
Dimi, I answered the same to Gentile, please take a look there. It is basically about the uselessness of arguments against craziness. I didnt see a single reasonable line against Kramnik and his supporters. I couldnt see a single defense for Topalov. But I saw several dozens of good arguments against Topalov, among them my own. Would you really believe that if all anonymous writers gave their names the Topalov people would suddenly find all the good arguments? The problem is, you cant support unethical misbehavior. You can think about Kramnik what you want, but nowhere, not for a single time, Kramnik spoke about other players like Topalov against Kramnik. Say what you want but you cant save Topalov’s damaged image. Only Topalov could do that for himself – if he apologized to all of us. He should do that for the sake of his own chess talent.
What is next from the Topolov camp?
Maybe he is the real father of Anna Nichol Smith’s baby?
Why are you guys (mostly faceless anons) jumping against Susan Polgar?
You should appreciate when someone:
1) Takes a stance
2) Takes a “balanced” stance
3) Takes a “balanced” stance with 0 political gain
4) Takes a “balanced” stance with negative political gain
Agree with her, or not, Susan is not a political slug. She spoke her mind in Elista. It wasn’t pro-Topalov. I do not remember her being attacked by Topalov fans.
Again, Topalov is outnumbered 10:1 on this issue and she has the courage to be balanced. That’s speaks a lot about someone’s integrity.
D.
With all due respect to ChessBase, what they are doing now more and more looks like a war against Topalov.
Well, Kommersant published some article. But why ChessBase could not ask the ACP Board and verify the (sensitive!) facts, before to put on the top the following “summary”:
“The ACP and FIDE have vowed to investigate”.
Regarding FIDE I have no idea. But, well… I quit the ACP board very recently (what was not related, luckily, with this Topalov, Kramnik stuff). Hopefully, my colleagues would explain to the chess world that the whole “ACP investigation” issue emerged from nowhere. I do not want to say more as of now.
I am working in chess journalism for a while, but I must say that I never saw in the past such a massive public campaign against someone.
Posted by: Mikhail Golubev February 12, 2007 22:54
Dimi, what a revealing post. Even you by your own admission agree Judit is biased. I wonder if she will delete this post too.
J.
Anonymous J: Dimi, what a revealing post. Even you by your own admission agree Judit is biased. I wonder if she will delete this post too.
Biased? I said balanced!
But since you bring bias, let’s talk about that. If not being a political slug is biased then that’s a wonderful bias to have. Speak what you think instead of what is expedient is biased indeed. A proud kind of bias!
Susan is Hungarian – these are proud people who know what being outnumbered 10 to 1 in the gravest of circumstances mean. You walk through Budapest and you see the scars of history. If you can be biased towards a better understanding, then more power to you!
D.
The New FIDE rules:
1. Cheating by Russians is not a cheating.
2. Accusing Russians in cheating is dishonest and constitutes cheating.
Hey, I spoke of integrity earlier, why do prefer to be an anonymous worm throwing dirt at people? Put your name if you’re such a maverick for truth…
BTW, here is how I responded to that very comment by Mig in his blog:
————————-
Mig, there was a lot more than just reporting the news. They are craftily editorialized. Political proclamations don’t alter reality and people see that eventually. The glass house was erected around Topalov in order to suffocate him. I think it should be shattered, even at the price of wasting a toilet seat or two…
D.
Yes, what you wrote there makes no more sense here either.
There is a saying “those who live in glass houses should not throw stones” which basically means that its unwise to throw around criticisms which you are just as vulnerable to yourself, in this context.
Thats what Mig meant.
And I signed off at the end of my comment just as I will again, though quite what your fixation is with anonymous postings dimi I dont know. Until you put your real name, address and phone number at the bottom of your posts you are anonymous to me.
The only use my putting J at the bottom of my posts is so that you, and as far as I can tell solely you dimi – can idetify which posts originate from me. But that too relies on my honesty as I could post from a number of identities created at will.
J.
One important question:
Everybody ask Topalov to prove he is inocent by asking for glass between the players and by telling Danilov not to come in the games.
Then logically they should also want Kramnink to ask to shield the toilet as his first reaction, to remove suspicions…
Well, this is not exactly what Kramnink did. He instead did not appear on the game at all! (i.e. not only he didn’t ask on his own to close the toilets, but when the appeal comitte decided to close them he refused to play..)
Assume that ACP and FIDE decides to band Danailov from the playing venue, just in case. Would you accept Topalov quiting the tournament as a reasonable reaction? Why you do the same with Kramnink?
didocus – ‘never before nor after this match did he have this behaviour’.
Not true. Kasparov complained in 2000 about Kramnik’s frequent absences from the board in his restroom – not suggesting any cheating; just saying they were distracting him. The arbiters told him basically that it was Kramnik’s right to leave the board whenever he liked and that was that.
Catch 22
I hope and suspect that there has not been cheating but Chess must protect its image.
Clearly Topalov’s reputation badly damaged so he is already a victim… possibly this is why he is lashing out at Kramnik as he may see a connection between him and the accusers.
What can be done?
I think Susan’s proposals are fine but inadequate as the battle lines are too clearly drawn.
Maybe FIDE can do something but it is hard to see any investigation as anything other than confirming that there is something to look at. Catch 22.
What could be done? Good question. Easy answer.
Let’s go back to Elista. Dozens of international GM sent their solidarity addresses to Kramnik against the dirty allegations of the Topalov team.
But then Wijk aan Zee. I had expected that Topalov had been trated just like the computer FRITZ during that legendary Dutch championship. Either draw in 15 moves or lose in 12 moves in a bad opening line – showing Topalov all the deserved contempt. Let him win the tournament with 5 points more than all others and telling so the organisers that Topalov is no longer a decent chessplayer.
But that didnt happen. The players simply ignored that two of them didnt communicate with one another and they all spoke with each one of the two as if nothing had happened.
So far about the connection between chess genius and ethical standards.
I can only invite the interested readers to search for the NOS radio interview of Topalov and also the TV report about Topalov on Dutch TV. Here in these documents Topalov puts himself outside the legendary chess ethos that is based on mutual respect between all chessplayers beyond all kind of political trends. Wait please, with the exception of Alekhine considering the Jewish chess collegues…
If the actual GM community and also the members here in the blog have realised what Topalov is talking about then they would understand that this is no case to look what FIDE does or not or what a journalist is writing – but what they personally could do in tournaments like Wijk or Linares. To bring back ethical standards into tournament chess.
The motto should be: either Topalov corrects himself or he will be excluded out of the community.
to the long anonymous posting before mine :
hey dude – what are you talking about. Please express your thoughts clearer otherwise nobody would consider your long posting at all
I am surprised that someone can think that Danailov’s behaviour in the spectator’s hall in Wijk’07 or ’06 could somehow be far more suspicious than Kramnik’s behaviour in Elista on stage (leaving the board frequently to go to his private restroom). At the same time I also agree with any proposal that will put one-way mirror glass barriers between the players and the spectators in official events. I speak from personal experience: I am the father of a girl frequently competing in children chess events in Bulgaria, and I can assure you that both the presence of coaches in the playing area and any (yes, ANY) visit to the toilet by a kid during a tournament game is generally looked upon with suspicion by many of the stakeholders in these children chess events in Bulgaria. Sometimes an arbiter is accompanying the kid on the way to and from the toilet. And, as I remember, at one of the events I attended in 2004 or 2005, on the request of a group of parents the arbiters imposed a rule that the participating kids could visit the restroom only after being at least 60 minutes into the game. (This is not too unusual given the fact that the same rule applies in University entrance exams in Bulgaria, also.) I cannot tell for sure whether Kramnik cheated or not on any of his visits to his restroom, but having said all of the above, I hope at least some of you could better understand the feelings and the reactions of the Bulgarian chess fans in this controversy surrounding the Elista match.
>>mark said…
The New FIDE rules:
1. Cheating by Russians is not a cheating.
2. Accusing Russians in cheating is dishonest and constitutes cheating.
>>
LOL, that’s funny. Watching you brazenly endorse a double standard and act completely convinced that you’re on the receiving end. You won’t get an Oscar for this performance.
“I am surprised that someone can think that Danailov’s behaviour in the spectator’s hall in Wijk’07 or ’06 could somehow be far more suspicious than Kramnik’s behaviour in Elista on stage”
Well, the point you keep missing is that these things are supposed to be decided in private by officials, rather than by vigilante justice. Topalov is not wrong because he complained, he’s wrong because of the way he’s done it.
You can understand that the behavior is wrong if Short or Breutigam do it, but if someone you like does it, it’s a big mystery to you, and you’re left scratching your head wondering why people think you have a double standard.
>>
I can assure you that both the presence of coaches in the playing area and any (yes, ANY) visit to the toilet by a kid during a tournament game is generally looked upon with suspicion by many of the stakeholders in these children chess events in Bulgaria.
>>
Can you also assure me that in Bulgaria, if you have any suspicions about your opponent’s behavior, that you should just shout them out loud and try to get the other players to decide the issue for you? If you can assure me of that, then I’ll take back the part about the double standard.
Sometimes an arbiter is accompanying the kid on the way to and from the toilet. And, as I remember, at one of the events I attended in 2004 or 2005, on the request of a group of parents the arbiters imposed a rule that the participating kids could visit the restroom only after being at least 60 minutes into the game. (This is not too unusual given the fact that the same rule applies in University entrance exams in Bulgaria, also.) I cannot tell for sure whether Kramnik cheated or not on any of his visits to his restroom, but having said all of the above, I hope at least some of you could better understand the feelings and the reactions of the Bulgarian chess fans in this
“I hope at least some of you could better understand the feelings and the reactions of the Bulgarian chess fans in this”
For sure, during Elista, everyone seemed pretty sympathetic to team Topalovs requests that Kramnik play over the board not in the toilet.
Topalov lost that symapthy when his manager saw fit to behave like a complete drongo with the cheating accusations, watched videos of kramnik and then continue to fabricate a book and sling mud at every opportunity.
The initial compalint was merited but frankly Topalov is lucky to still be on the circuit after the trainwreck he caused.
The accusations levelled at Topalov now are another issue entirely. I dont think theres any proof out there (short of confession), and sueing people will only result in more circumsantial stuff coming out. If Topalov wants an end to this, he should start advocating anti-cheating measures instead of acting like a 2 year old child which has thrown its toys out of the pram.
J.
Dear J.,
We heard your opinion at least 61 times in these total of 122comments.
It is time you focused on Kramnik’s toilet preparation for the Mexico championship.
regards,
Z.
Dear Z
hahahahah!
J. :p
seriously though..i think hanging round mens toilets might be more your “thing”
I think the last posts before the last few (one more time, Susan; Topalov’s more cretinous supporters are an embarrassment to your blog: PLEASE either censor them or make them register) do actually touch on something which (apart from patriotism) partly accounts for the difference between Bulgarian and Western reactions to Elista. What so horrified Westerners about Elista was not so much the fact of a protest but the manner in which it was made, and most of all the way in which it was dealt with procedurally – the release of the videos, the ignoring by the committee of the rules governing time of protests, the overruling by the committee of agreed procedures for the physical layout of the match, and so on, were unanimously condemned. I suspect this respect for proper procedure is something that is less innate in citizens of the former Soviet bloc. Kramnik too is quite a Westernised guy. You see a lot of comments on the blogs about ‘how could he turn down $1 million for rematch if he was on the level’. To the Western mind there is no puzzle about it at all; a comfortably-off guy, probably a millionaire, is hardly going to expose himself to being called a cheat again by a bunch of pirates like Topalov’s lot for any amount of money. In poorer countries this view is naturally less comprehensible.
Of course these are fatuous and probably offensive stereotypes, but like most offensive stereotypes I suspect there’s an element of truth in them.
Percy
Dear J,
Thank you very much for showing respect to my previous post.
It seems you do this to each and every post in this thread.
Good job.
Good Luck.
Hope you get well paid for this otherwise it would be just nonsense and loss of time.
Regards,
Z.
PS. Now you are laughing but Mexico is close and toilet preparations should be made. otherwise we will see Kramnik fighting for the 4th place again.
Dear Z,
You are an odd fellow. I am hoping for victory for one of the younger players in Mexico.
Thats the problem with you Topalistas. Most neutral observers like me think that Topalov is behaving like a fool. That doesnt automatically mean we support Kramnik.
J.
Dear Percy,
Thank you very much for your pro-western cultivating advises addressed to the poor, undeveloped and primitive Bulgarians.
I think that now they will start to better understand the pure and elevated feelings that all the western world (Germany) have integrated into a noble article published recently into one of the most reputable German newspapers and translated into the unbiased site of Chessbase.com.
dear Bulgarians,
Shame on you! Please consider your assessment of this situation. can’t you see that Topalov is a cheat?
1. He has earned his rating in friendly games – because many of the top chess players are originating from countries which used to be part of the “Big Brother”, and “Big Brother” always helps to his younger one to be No1.
2. Beating all the rest is just cheating because the Genius Danailov has invented an unbreakable code for transfering moves and does this since the beginning of Topa’s career.
3. Of course that Kramnik is honest and Topalov is a cheat – that is under no suspicions – can you compare the backward minded eastern Topalov to the progressively and highly cultured Kramnik. (btw. Kramnik was born to the east of Bulgaria and is also currently leaving to the east of Topalov’s residence)
regards,
Z.
Susan,
just for the record, the letter from Kutin & Vega was published in Chess Today, issue 2239, 25 Dec 2006.
Truth to be told, no one, as it seems, was in a big hurry to mention this, of course CT is less respected as a source that German newspaper (ZS), Indian DNA site and the Russian Kommersant. We mentioned that we received this ond other material from Danailov. You can check this issue, which you probably somehow missed.
Misha,
Thank you for the facts which are rare nowadays. This mess is not good for chess.
I must have missed it in Chess Today. I knew about the letter but I never saw the actual copy of it. I am surprised that it was not published by many other publications.
I do enjoy reading Chess Today very much! Keep up the great work!
Best wishes,
Susan Polgar
http://www.PolgarChess.com
The reference to “respect for proper procedure” made in a previous post is somewhat misguided. There are many possible types of “proper procedures”, “western” or not . I see nothing wrong with a rule (as cited in the “easterner’s” post) that players should be allowed to visit the restroom only after being at least 60 minutes into the game – this is just a good example of setting a “proper procedure”, given the sircumstances as of today. Another procedure, which seems to me even more “proper”, would be to establish a rule according to which a player in a match can visit the restroom a second time in a game only after his opponent has already visited the restroom at least once during the same game. This would put both players on an equal footing (there was a rule resembling this some time ago, concerning the proper way to offer draws)
Personally I think those would rather childish proposals, but of course there would be nothing improper about them, if they were what had been agreed to. But they are not procedural at all: they would be substantive rules governing the conduct of the players. By ‘proper procedure’ I meant the rules which had been agreed to governing the way in which complaints were to be dealt with.
Percy
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2005/11/i-say.html#links
This is a Topalista Blog. For those wanting a more balanced discussion checkout the Kramnik website forum. You won’t get the truth here.
http://www.kramnik.com/default.aspx
>>With all due respect to ChessBase, what they are doing now more and more looks like a war against Topalov. >>
It seems impossible to argue that, considering they’ve published every charge Topalov has made, within a day or two of his making it. It only seems unfair to you when he’s on the receiving end. This says more about your bias than about theirs.
>>AGAIN SUSAN IS RIGHT ON. SIMPLE FACTS.>>
No, she’s wrong. While I appreciate that she took a bullet for the good of the game and didn’t complain too much about it, the fact is she was treated unfairly. My understanding is that the Court of Arbitration for Sport agreed that she’d been treated unfairly when they awarded her financial compensation.
The bit about not being able to keep your title forever is a dodge. The fact is, that we were waiting on FIDE, not Kramnik, to fulfill its end of the Prague Agreement. Kramnik qualified for the Unification Match in 2004. We spent the next year and a half waiting for FIDE to produce their candidate to play against him. When Kasparov walked out of the Kasparov-Kasimdzhanov match, Kasim should have been declared the winner right there, and gone on to face Kramnik for the Unified Title. Instead, FIDE tried to default on the agreement. When nobody accepted that, they grudgingly gave in, and played the match. To blame the delay on Kramnik is ludicrous. He had an offer on the table a week after San Luis ended. FIDE and Topalov refused it. In the end, they stopped running and played in Elista, for a lot less money.
To say that Kramnik was “given” a shot is likewise ludicrous, as it tries to pretend that the whole 13 year schism never happened. FIDE tried to ignore the Classical Champion unsuccessfully. That’s why a reunification match was signed on the first place. If Kirsan’s own signature on a contract doesn’t mean anything, then don’t give us any nonsense about how FIDE’s title is the real one because it represents rules and structure.
I’m sorry Susan got screwed out of the Women’s title, but that’s hardly an argument for screwing over other players too. But she didn’t take it lying down, she sued and won. Other players might not take it lying down either.
As far as I am concerned the WCC succession goes:
Spassky
Fischer
Karpov
Kasparov
Kramnik
Who the other flunkies were that might have held the FIDE title I have no idea.
>>WCC has had nothing to the succession. It is sth to be won.>>
Are you aware of how chess history has played out? In fact, it’s always had to do with the succession, whether it should have or not. In fact, in the very next breath, you go on to contradict yourself and admit that fact.
>>The way of the championship has to be similar to the soccer, volleyball,basketball or car or ice racing .It would finish the all current problems.
P.
>>
Nah. Nobody respects that format. If they did, the unification match would never have happened. Unlike soccer, volleyball, et cetera, chess is a one-on-one game. That’s how people like to see a champion determined.
It also seems like wishful thinking to think that abandoning a match system would have avoided the present crisis, which was caused by Topalov’s unethical behavior in making his accusations publicly rather than complaining going through channels and letting the (sympathetic) Appeals Committee do their job. Others are now jumping on to the feeding frenzy he started, and, as you can see, it can happen in a tournament just as easily as in a match. To blame Topalov’s behavior on the match format is laughable.
Percy, I don’t mind stereotypes per se, but you’ve concocted a theory that collapses like a house of cards under scrutiny.
Kramnik has a very solid back, look at Zhukov (VP of Russia) taking a stand on how the Championship should be conducted. The president of FIDE reports to Kremlin directly. In these circumstances Kramnik can afford to act “aristocratic” as if above the fray. Refusing to play a game over a toilet dispute is a sign of a guy who is spolied enough to have the confidence that his people will do what they should. (imagine someone else behaving in that manner, a Bulgarian?). Indeed, Appeals Committees get swiped out like a bread crumbs. Yep, one can act somewhat aloof in such circumstances and appeal to the section of Western minds that are infatuated with Royalty.
As far as behavioral patterns in the world of chess, we have to see what a German does when he goes East — I suspect they would drop the Western values in a hurry. Take a cross-section of the players — rubbish talking and weird behavior are not an Eastern phenomenon, per se. Do you need examples?
D.
Why bother with these long posts.
Just put an X in the appropriate box to express your opinion and life can go on. Good old human nature?
| Evil | Good |
———+——-+———+
Kramnik | | |
———+——-+———+
Topalov | | |
———+——-+———+
That’s good!
I only wish everything is so simple.
Though is good.And fresh too.(after so much nonsence and mad)
>>gabor said…
Why bother with these long posts.
Just put an X in the appropriate box to express your opinion and life can go on. Good old human nature?>>
Because opinions which ignore or deny the facts aren’t as good as reasoned opinions.
I suspect that the posts we read are only the tip of the iceburg. What about the posts that have been deleted. I always wonder what they say. LOL.
ChessBase republishes GM Short’s statements from the DNA website, after what Short by phone requests them to make some sensitive corrections.
Why it was necessary to hurry? Why not to ask Short, whom they know extremely well, and conducted many interviews with him in the past?
Then, very similarly, they quickly refer to (inaccurate) Kommersant article and make comments. Let’s be serious. ChessBase editors know all members of the ACP Board and most of their email address too, be sure about that. So why to hurry? Why not to ask a comment before to republish stuff from the mainstream Russian paper, whose journalist is not an insider of the chess world (like Breutigam)? In fact, the matter was not discussed by the ACP Board and ChessBase simply supported rumours. Some of the ACP board members found news about their “investigation” from ChessBase and other sites who acted similarly.
The current policy is obvious, and it is regrettable because journalists are working with facts first of all, and should try to be accurate – especially when it is SO easy to be accurate.
Regarding the (similarly quick) publication of the translated Breutigam article. This was OK, in my view. (If, of course the author and his paper did not object, but they did not object as we know). I am not agree with people who said that it was necessary for ChessBase to abstain.
GM Mikhail Golubev
This is posted over at Mig’s site.
http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/2007/02/video_killed_the_chess_star.htm
this represents FACTS. I give the FACTS with no commenet.
There might be a simple reason for Topalov’s bad result in Essent:
According to teh evil chessbase site the good humored Danailov just arrived before round 4 there:
http://www.chessbase.de/nachrichten.asp?newsid=5966
Posted by: siron at February 13, 2007 16:14
A valid point, siron.
So the statistics from Essent 2006 are as follows:
Danailov absent:
Topa scores 0,5/3
Danailov in the audience:
Topa scores 2/3
Posted by: Zombre at February 13, 2007 16:38
Mr. M.G.,
You want to blaim other people of too much hurry and what do you do? You are busy to classify aspects of secondary importance. But about the craziness of the allegations from Topalov and his team I cant hear a sound. Do you think this is decent for a GM in chess and a journalist in chess? Is such a double standard fair? Is it professional? And as a last question: are you defending Topalov in his insults and indecent allegations against Kramnik?
Could you imagine Topolov as World chess Champion? How unclassy would that be! yuk !!!
Percy,
(1) You overstretch your Western vs Eestern mentality conjectures here.
(2) As far as contracts, Topalov has a very admirable track record. Kramnik on the other side has a checkered record, a frequent topic of discussion elsewhere. He has wiggled out of more tournaments than many. It wasn’t clear if he will honor his contract to play in Mexico until a week or two ago. That was one of the most damning examples of low regard for contracts.
(3) Personally, it’s hard to put a stereotype on me. I’ve lived 20 years in the West (I’m 40) and I find myself the one to push for precision and clarity of thought. You, on the other side, should do your homework on facts better (re: point 2).
(4) On your earlier point: Kramnik’s convenience vs. Danailov, a spectator — this can be spun in N directions. I’ll try to keep it simpler. Any setting that creates an extremely strong case of doubt should be discouraged. That includes private toilets and managers walking around. I think the inconvenience is not that great compared to the benefit of ‘clean process’.
Regards,
D.
Mr. M.G.,
You want to blaim other people of too much hurry and what do you do? You are busy to classify aspects of secondary importance. But about the craziness of the allegations from Topalov and his team I cant hear a sound. Do you think this is decent for a GM in chess and a journalist in chess? Is such a double standard fair? Is it professional? And as a last question: are you defending Topalov in his insults and indecent allegations against Kramnik?
Someone republished here my post from another blog, somehow I found it…
Well: if you are not so happy with what I wrote, you also could ask me about what I made wrong in whole my life, and which chess mistakes I made in the last 30 years, to speak about this also, here and now – why not?! Regarding Danailov vs Kramnik I wrote a lot. And now “The World vs Topalov” seems to be topical, yes?
If you would prove to us here that Breutigam, ChessBase, Kommersant articles are somehow directly related with Kramnik, then I would understand your request (i.e. to analyse Danailov vs Kramnik story in this context) much better.
Dimi, this question of whether Kramnik has in the past broken contracts is a red herring. Even if he had (which I don’t accept: certainly he’s withdrawn from tournaments for medical reasons) it wouldn’t mean he couldn’t be angry at the Appeals Committee ignoring his contractual rights during a world championship match.
Parties to contracts are perfectly entitled to try and renegotiate them, it happens all the time. You have no idea what negotiations have been occurring and it’s silly to bring this up as a ‘damning example of Kramnik’s low regard for contracts’. It’s simply not true – you’re just saying what you would like to be true.
You may well be right about private toilets in the future, but it doesn’t follow that it was legitimate to change in the middle of the match arrangements which had been agreed before the match.
Percy
Hello,
concerning cables in the Elista.
I do not understand that most of the writers told about computer connection and the plug feature.
It could be source of the infrared, voice, radio etc. signal. It is enough to receive information from external area and you do not need the plug. In the building which was isolated from electronoc signals it is the very suspicious matter.
Joining that with the uncontrolled toilette visits could lead to very unpleasent conclusion for the toilette visitor. I do not know if the match shall not be annulated and palyed once again ?
The conditions of play were not as expected. Isolation from external word were not fullfilled.
P.
P.
It’s absolutely obvious, to me at least, that Topalov’s team was exposed to abnormal and unbearable political pressure from the government of Russia and KGB and their safety was undoubtedly threatened in Elista! I still wonder why they agreed to play on enemy’s land at all … Yesterday a friend of mine living in Canada, told me about a canadian TV program that showed some stuff about the tortures in Russian army. It was about the town ot Saint Petersburg. Some shots were aired, showing the “old” soldiers violently torturing the newbies. All these clips were filmed from the official militaries who are in charge there, who did only laughing during the scenes. This is done just for fun – this is what russian people are about. You are forced by the law to go in the army and spend some time fr your country, and when the time comes to go home, nobody can say how many legs or arms will you be left with! If you manage to survive at all! Every year in Russia between 50 and 100 soldiers die in “unknown” circumstances. “Avoiding” the military service usualy will cost you about $5000 US. So, still you cannot believe the KGB connections and stuff like that!?