Toilet dispute may flush chess title
Player threatens to withdraw after bathroom locked
By DYLAN LOEB MCCLAIN
New York Times
On Thursday at the World Chess Championships in the Russian Republic of Kalmykia, the player from Bulgaria charged that the player from Russia was taking too many bathroom breaks, more than 50 a game. He suggested that his opponent was running to the toilet — the only area used by the players not monitored by cameras — to get illegal assistance, presumably from a computer.
That was just the beginning.
On Friday, the World Chess Federation locked the private bathrooms that are used by players. That is when the Russian player would not even sit down to play — he went straight to the bathroom area, where he staged a sit-in, refusing to play the fifth game of the match until it was unlocked. It was not. The federation forfeited the game in favor of his opponent.
By late Friday night, the president of the federation, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, who is also the president of Kalmykia, had left a meeting with President Vladimir Putin of Russia to fly back to the Kalmykian republic to meet with the managers of the two players to see if he could broker a settlement, said Ilyumzhinov’s assistant, Berik Balgabaev.
As it stands, no one is sure if the match can or will continue, he added.
Too many breaks
The problems began when Silvio Danailov, the manager of the Bulgarian player, Veselin Topalov, the world’s top-ranked player, filed a written protest with the federation about the number of times his opponent, Vladimir Kramnik of Russia, was retreating to his bathroom during the games. Kramnik is the No. 4-ranked player in the world. Before the protest, Kramnik led the match, 3-1, with 6.5 points needed for a victory.
The rest can be read here.
Chess unification bout takes nasty turn
By MIKHAIL SAVINOV,
Associated Press Writer
Fri Sep 29, 11:02 PM ET
ELISTA, Russia – The future of the world chess championship was in question Friday when a player did not show up for the fifth game and threatened to withdraw from the match after he was accused of cheating and locked out of his private bathroom.
Vladimir Kramnik, a Russian, was accused by the manager for his opponent, Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, of taking too many bathroom breaks — an apparent suggestion that he was secretly using a technical device or a computer program to help him with his moves.
The rest can be read here.
no reversal of the results..3/2 it should remain……the fact is the toilet breaks are just to suspicious and has led to a minus 2 score for topalov……if kramnik is cheating he should be band from all fide tournaments(no use analysing the games in the toilet….if a public bathroom is provided both players should be granted that….in previous matches like tal and botvinik …everyone paced on the playing floor .not in the toilet.
as a chess player i know if you spend that amount of time inbetween the board and toilet .you are bound to make a mistake… but kramnik is playing good chess.. and please note his K to h7 clearing the back rank was a computer move.
At first, I thought it would be a disaster for chess and make it a mockery in the world’s eyes. But with a few days to think about it, I’ve come to realize that at times, the elite in any sport or game can be extremely eccentric and the public is not going to blame all of chess for two players’ poor behavior.
It is just too bad that the chess-loving public can’t require its potential champions to pass a sportsmanship or character test. But that’s what happens when we rely on the purity of over-the-board results.
Yes, both players are being unsporting. Topalov never should have insulted and accused his opponent of cheating. Kramnik never should have been rattled by Topalov’s boorish behavior. And Kramnik should have accepted that dozens of trips to the bathroom were never realistically contemplated when they drew up the groundrules. Does Kramnik really think that if he took 600 trips to the bathroom every game, the organizers had no right to change things around?
Oh well, we can admire their over-the-board play, but I am going to root for all the players other than Topalov and Kramnik in the next few cycles. Except, of course, the ones who have even less sportsmanship than those two…
I remember a description made by Reshevsky of how the great Capablanca and the great Alekhine, who hated each other, would play the game of chess during tournaments when they had to face eacth other. Reshevsky says that Capablanca would make his move on the board, and stand from the table. Then, and only then, Alekhine would sit and move, immediatly standing up.
Some day somebody will have to research what is it in the mind of the chess players that make them be this childish. This sort of ridiculous behavior, of tantrums, of prima dona complaints, is nothing new.
Six other times, is that right?, have the reunification been attempted. What does this tell you? Alekhine died world champion, but not because he deserved to: when he died Botvinnik was way superior. All the great champions of yore, in the pre WWII era, did with their crowns as they pleased.
I thought we had grown up. I see we haven’t. Maybe we never will.
Dear Susan,chess fans and all,
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
I have an awful information that something “fishy” was going on in the toilets,especially in the Kramnik’s private one .
Appears that there’s a suspicion GM Kramnik tryed to cheat in a simple,but genial fashion after all. “Mechanical” communication via sound waves through the system of water pipes in the Building!Possibly by slight knocking the pipes -using a Morse code or something similar-getting the help from the outside that way.
This info hasn’t been verified yet,and I hope it will not be.
One journalist who follows the match in person there,told me he had heard the investigation considers that option quite seriously.Oh boy,I can’t believe it..
Best,
GK
iniscrib, gk, you are almost as silly as Danailov.
Kramnik did not play like a computer (remember Bxf8?), and the rooms were checked before the match and before every game. There is simply no evidence of cheating.
Besides, Kramnik’s explanation, that he walked in and out of the toilet while pacing around, makes good sense. As you know, he suffers from ankylosing spondylitis, which causes a painful stiffness in the lower back. So he must feel a strong need to keep moving.
The fact that he played Bxf8 could only mean that he hasn’t got a help for every single move.
Nothing else.
And there is no computer or any electronic device in the toilets I agree,but there could be outside building.BTW,The strongest moves moves are not by computers but combination of human and computer analysis.
The question arisen then is how could Kramnik communicate with somebody from the outside (or from other toilet in the building)?
Water pipes in toilets are all mutually connected.Sound propagetes excellent through them as known.
As you see,this might not be a complete Science Fiction or nonsense murr.
Probably it’s just a rumor.I just hope it is.
Best,
GK
“The question arisen then is how could Kramnik communicate with somebody from the outside (or from other toilet in the building)?”
I’m sorry but that is not the question at all. Walking around a lot is an innocent thing, so no questions arise at all – except for the manager of the player who is losing the match and who wants to create some extra tension and controversy.
You might as well argue that Kramnik murdered someone in the bathroom. “The question now arises, where is the dead body?”
Kramnik’s behaviour not suspicious?
That Kramnik spent eighty two minutes in front of a bathroom door without entering and without having to go to another restroom proves that his “need” to go 50 times per game to the bathroom is false. Furthermore, he is suspected of using a small chess set to make moves physically while in the bathroom (the only place sans cameras) which gives the palyer a minimum of 300 Elo points of advantage. This is serious since neither player is searched for non-electronic devices. It also sheds a dark light on the Kasparov vs Kramnik match, since Kasparov complained (just like Topalov) that Kramnik made too many trips to the bathroom!
Let me repeat: Kramnik explanation of his frequent bathroom visits is completely insatisfactory. He claims that he uses it to “walk”. Is the bathroom so big that he can walk inside it for 1 to 2 minutes at a time? (he claims he uses it as an “extension” to the restroom yet he “disapears” inside for such lenghts of time many times, some obviously for actually relieving himself but many others for “walking”). His “need” to go to the restroom so frequently (and his “need” to walk so much because of his disease) was proven false by his “sit in” in front of the restroom for 82 minutes (60 minutes till the forfeit and 22 minutes before that until they starte the clock), he did not need to go a SINGLE time to the bathroom in that time span, nor he needed to walk “so much” during it. There are only two reasonable explanations for such behaviour: either Kramnik has some sort of psychiatric disorder that forces him to be in the restroom so frequently (his claimed inordinate “thirst” was also proven false in this 82 minute interval) or that he is “somehow” cheating. Since electronics are carefully inspected for (and there is even interference) we can rule out radio intervention and chess computers (except if he uses a sophisticated water pipe morse code like one source claims) so the only other way for him to cheat is by using said portable chess set.
ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE, SEALING THE TOILET, ETC WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE KRAMNIK HIDES THE CHESS SET IN HIS CLOTHES, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE ONE PROPOSED BY SEIRAWAN, THAT THERE IS SOMEONE PRESENT IN THE BATHROOM.
Hmm,that’s twice as suspicios.
In 2000 ,when he played Kasparov,Kramnik didn’t suffer from Ankylosing spondylitis.
Or did he murr?
Man obviously likes toilets very much…
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2846
“Classical chess world champion Vladimir Kramnik will not be playing in the Corus Tournament in Wijk aan Zee (13-29 January 2006). In a statement issued today Kramnik cites a health crisis that makes it necessary for him to undertake serious clinical treatment. It will take a few months before he can return to normal competitive chess. Press statement.
Statement by Vladimir Kramnik:
“I would like to inform the chess community that due to health problems I shall not be able to participate in the Corus Chess Tournament 2006.
A couple of years ago a form of arthritis was diagnosed. This disease causes painful inflammation in the joints. Unfortunately since that time, the symptoms have started to appear more often and with greater severity.
A new recent crises makes it necessary to undertake serious clinical treatment. Solving the present problem within a few months will allow me to come back and enjoy competitive chess at the highest level.
I want to stress clearly, that – as always – I am eager to continue and enhance my chess career. There are still many goals to achieve.”
Just read this.
Kramnik is very discret about his privacy. When he has to talk about, he did it.
are you ok gk now?
dcax you just poved my point. Kramnik did not suffer said disease in his match against Kasparov yet he did visit the toilet an inordinate number of times thus the suspicions of cheating…
I find it completely unbelievable that people are actually lending credence to the idea that Kramnik has cheated.
Even the Topalov biased appeals committee has said that he hasn’t.
Kramniks results against Topalov in the past have been evidence enough. According to my database it stood at 15 wins, 7 losses and 29 draws in 2004. Does this mean you guys think Kramnik has been cheating in all his games with Topalov?
The Topalov team have been shocked to find their player struggling against Kramnik, so they start throwing wild accusations around in an effort to get the match scrapped.
If the match is stopped, they will continue to call Topalov the World Champion, and go on to a fat pay day from the game against Radjabov.
It was obvious that eventually the nutters would come out from under their rocks and start accusing Kramnik of cheating. This is patently nonsense.
Kramniks recovery from illness has been well illustrated by his excellent performance in Turin, are we to assume that he was cheating then too?
He has a winning record against Topalov, this match simply confirms he is a better match player. Sad that some people find this fact so difficult to live with.
So you are saying that he cheated in his game with Kasparov?
Funny that Kasparov never mentioned it.I find it hard to believe that you have some knowledge that Kramnik cheated in a world championship match against Kasparov, and this is the first we hear about it? Who do you think you are kidding?
His regular time away from the table is his choice. He is not required by any rule of chess to sit at the table for a prescribed amount of time. In Elista he has a seperate rest room so he goes there. I have seen him play at many tournaments, and he rarely sits at the table. This is his choice, not illegal nor unsporting.
Danailov knows Kramnik is a private and polite man, sadly Danailov isn’t, and knew that if he attacked Kramnik’s personnel habits, he would get the required results.
Danailov is a disgrace to the game, and it’s a great shame that he is dragging Topalovs reputation down to his gutter level.
Pointless to comment on your inside information, as it obviously came from inside your head.
“Besides, the Topalov camp is shocked for a reason, this type of apparently one sided strenght is very irregular for the rating of both opponents.”
On this subject, Topalov made blunders in both of the losses against Kramnik, Kramnik made blunders too, but less of them. This is because both players are under extreme pressure, plain and simple. The loss in the second game, when a win could be spotted by the average club player was due to a mistake by Topalov, not some brilliant computer refutation by Kramnik.
How can you seriously say that Topalov’s team attribute the loss of game two to Kramnik cheating? When a win for Topalov was a couple of moves away, and he simply missed it.
Flush It Good!
(sung to the tune of Whip It Good! by Devo)
When annoying problems comes along
You must flush it
When the pieces lok all wrong
You must flush it
When everything’s going wrong
You must flush it
now flush it
into shape
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it’s not too late
to flush it
flush it good
When you’ve got win a pawn…
You must flush it!
When the positions look all the same
You must flush it!
When a good time turns around
You must flush it!
You will never live it down
Unless you flush it!
No one gets their way
Until they flush it!
I say flush it
Flush it good!
If Kramnik really cheats somehow than the best move of FIDE and Topalov camp is to catch him .
A mini camera , hidden in the private toilets without knowledge of the players,or anyone else, would do the work.
Not like that, to ruin the competition without any proofs.
They are all idiots.
incidentally, what would kramnik do with a purloined computer–he and veselin and maybe anand are the only players alive who know a lot more than any software package