Should game 5 forfeit result be changed?
1. Yes. It should be changed.
2. No. It should stand as a forfeit loss.
3. You are sick of it and you do not care anymore 
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
Game 5 Poll
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Play game 5, stantirng from 3-1. Kramnik is absolutely right.
Game 5 is Topalov’s point.
(But yeah, I’m sick of it, so in either case let’s just move on with the match)
Yesterday I said the result must stand. But if Topalov’s camp can be persuaded to start with game 5, then I am all for it. The continuance of the WCC match — and unification of the title — is far more important than any of the other legal points/personal principles being debated.
— Mike D.
I agree with the first post here, however you can well imagine Topalov wanting to keep his last point now. I hope not as someone has to give here.
No. It should stand as a forfeit loss.
I dont think Kram will play unless it is changed.
But I dont think Top will want to give ground when he is 2 points down.
There will be no match if the result stands. And then everyone loses. Make the score 3-1 and continue with game 5, cost what it may. Topalov will sell that point for the right price.
I think it should remain a forfeit for a couple of reasons:
1. This is the risk Kramnik took by refusing to play, and
2. There is no precedent I know about to overturn a forfeit for refusing to play. Even Fischer played game 3 in 1972 without getting the forfeit overturned and he was losing 2-0, not winning, like Kramnik is.
Note: I do think that many of Kramnik’s points are valid and the decision against him was too harsh, but that is a different question.
Number 2 and 3 for me.
Beco.
Bottom line is Topalov did nothing wrong by lodging a protest, it was his right to be heard if thats how he felt. Kramnik was within his rights to expect his contract not to change without his agreement. I think that FIDE has messed up here so why should either player end up losing?
The gratuitouscomments by Topolav’s manager are a strong indication that the incident was created for tactical reasons – after all Topolav is losing. I recommend that Kramnik leave. The arbiters exceeded their authority, ignored the contract, made an erroneous ruling, and appear incompetent and biased. Such action would ruin Topolav, and restore integrity to the game.
Play game 5 with score of 3-1. If I’ve understood the contract conditions correctly, Kramnik is right, the arbiters had no right to change the playing conditions (and therefore no right to forfeit him for refusing to play because those conditions were changed).
That’s the point of this poll. Match will not continue. Sad..
Start with game 5 with score 3-1, anything else is ridiculous. Topalov is a chicken, once he is behind finding all short of reasons to distract Kramnik.
3-2.
It’s wrong to say the arbiters had no right to change the conditions. Even Kramnik’s open letter concedes that arbiters can have the right to change conditions. Kramnik complained that “Any change of the playing conditions without a good reason would in our understanding request the approval of both players which is not the case here.”
So, Kramnik concedes that the arbiters have the power to change conditions if they have good reason. So now it comes down to whether the arbiters had good reason and I think the arbiters have an argument that visiting the bathroom dozens of times in a game can be good reason in the age of computer-cheating. It’s not like the arbiters changed the rules for no reason at all…
Topalov is the biggest loser, and a disgrace to chess! He is absolutely wrong and totally pathetic.
9-3 Topalov.
Danailov to President!!
The game must absolutelly be replayed. The whole affair was clearly instigated by the topalov camp to throw Kramnik off track, they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it carrying an undeserved point.
Continue with Game 5. All games should be won with moves over the board. Otherwise, it is not chess.
ChessBase just reports: “President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov issued a brief statement stating that the next game would be tomorrow, Sunday, October 1st. No details were given as to whether it would be game five or six”
Let Topalov The Tiger keep his accomplished free point. We will forever remember that smile on his face holding the Game 5 scoresheet without a single move being made. When the match continue, Kramnik will have the last laugh by winning the match with easy draws in all the remaining games. How about opening the restroom videos to the press during the games?
Start with game 5 with score 3-1. The whole thing is an attempt to distract Kramnik, which it has. Perhaps agreeing to an attendant in the bathroom would be a reasonable compromise for Kramnik to make.
What about to start from scratch?? 0-0
3-1
Kramnik is right to reject this personal harassment. He should reply by talking trash : Topalov never had any talent for chess so it is understandable why the desperate jerk had to resort to personal attacks. Of course Kramnik would do this with class. Topalov is attempting the “tar baby” defense. PATHETIC MEGALOMANIAC!!! He can’t compete with Kramnik. Never could. He couldn’t compare with Kasparov. He couldn’t beat Leko in a match. A match with Anand would be interesting but he would lose. The farcical FIDE “world chumpion” title has no credibility whatsoever. It only provokes delusions in the ephemeral winners.
It would be too scandalous to give a point to Topalov ( a good reason for FIDE to actually do it) by driving Kramnik in a situation where it was impossible for him to play. Therefore game 5 should be played again. FIDE could admit that the game was played under unclear conditions. The only reasonable way is to start from 3-1 again.
Russian mafia is the strongest mafia in the world. Hands off from Topalov!! 3-2
1. Yes. It should be changed.
Even for Topalov’s sake…he hasn’t been able to win in a normal game yet. He has to demonstrate he can win on the board. Letters, accusations, talking, etc etc.. why don’t they just let the board do the talking??? I remember that was the final word in the Fischer-Spassky match.
What game 5?
Score is 3-1
Kramnik should leave and play Anand instead. No reason to stay in this circus, with opponents directly targeting his health situation, accusing him of cheating, refusing to shake hands, and an incompetent Appeals Committee imposing rule changes two hours before games as a means of harassment.
Susan, you have lost almost all of my respect by trying to lay “equal blame” in this matter. AS ANOTHER POSTER ASKED, HOW WOULD YOU REACT IF SOMEONE PULLED THIS TOPALOV STUNT ON YOUR SISTER???
4-2 after fifth game would be fair.
1. Kramnik should kick whining loser Topalov’s butt starting at 3-1.
2. All invitational tournaments should refuse to invite Topalov.
3. Kramnik should sue the hell out of Danilov for defamation of character. This is a slam dunk legal win.
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bessel kok 10 – illuminov 0
Kramnik is doing things right. I think even game 5 is recognized as a loss to him, Kramnik can still win this match. But for the reason of fairplay, game 5 should be treated as not been played yet.
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I agree, Susan your lack of conviction in assessing this situation is worrying. This is obviously dispicable behaviour on behalf of Topalov. You have lost me as a reader. Kramnik has done nothing wrong.
3-2 according to the rules, but Topalov would forever be a pathetic clown if he’d insist on having the point. Coming back into the match through the shenanigans and provocations of the crook Danailov would deprive him of the status of a world champion even if he’d win 6 1/2 – 3 1/2 in the end.
Play game 5 at the result 3-1.
3. I am sick of it and I do not care anymore and I quit chess
Susan,
You should be congratulated on your effort to comment on the games, despite your srong favouritism to Topalov. I hope it’s just Topalov’s romantic style attracts you more.
Many posts say: “Kramnik has done nothing wrong”. That is not true.
1) Internally, Kramnik should have acknowledge that it can be seen as suspicious going so many times to the unsurveilled area. It is not normal. It is not. Say what you want.
2) Considering that this trips to the area outside the surveillance could be misinterpreted, Kramnik, to keep everything transparent, should have given a realistic explanation for this behavior, which was clearly bothering his opponent for good reasons. To much water and need to walk don’t cut it: he held it for an hour sitting in front of the door the other day. He can pee anywhere. He can walk anywhere.
3) Refusing to play game 5 was a BIG mistake from Kramnik’s part, and it was correctly declared a forfeit by the Arbiter. If he disagrees with something, he should play the game under protest, and beat Topalov, and then argue the details of the toilet problem.
So don’t say now that Topalov is the devil and Kramnik is a lamb. Kramnik started the psyco warfare. Now that it blew up in his face, don’t try to make him look like a victim.
i’m really sick of it – may MR. Topalov defend his “title” against Radjabow and MR.Kramnik play against deep fritz and defend his “title” against GM Kamsky or so… or what ever…
i’ll play my own game tomorow, i’ll have the black pieces and i prepare for a scandinavian defense – most probably with 5… Ne4?!? – i’ll run in and out the tournament room (time controls: 2h/40 30min rest of the game)- will chain smoke and hope for a win of my team.
sincerly, Vohaul
1.YES it should be changed and the game actually played, for the good of the match. Furthermore, it’s good for both. For Kramnik because he’s already ahead and for Topalov because “if” he manages to recover, it’s gonna be with his own merits. FIDE really messed up.
the result must be reversed. topalov’s team has little credibility and this especially includes topalov, who in desperation tried a sham to get point. leave chess to the board and the shenannigins to Ilumshinov and Danilov, who are crooks in bed with each other.
To be honest, i support Topalov in the match but if i was Kramnik i would would never accept to continue with 3-2.
This is because if he loses the match he will really regret later.
Better for him to quit the match, then chess people will remember that Kramnik won 3-1 on he board and Topalov won 8-0 on the papers.
Kramnik was out of fide titles for some years, he has nothing to lose if he never enters the fide system
About the toilet, i cannot understand what Topalov will gain if they share the same toilet, may be collect some hair from Kramnik and work some voodoo on it 🙂
I think Kramnik is right, and Topalov (specially his manager!)are “bad loosers”.
I don’t think the match can go on whith a forfeit, and Topalov will refuse to replay it. So, I see a possibility to save the match: to take the unprecedent desicion that game 5 is 1/2 – 1/2. Kramnik had white, so it’s a disadvantage – on the other and, he has an enormous advance of two points, so a draw is an advantage. In very special conditions (here everything was wrong, the complaint not made in time, and…not refused), the FIDE President can take special decisions (remember the cancelling of the too long first match Karpov – Kasparov)
I don’t care anymore. Until Fischer chess (or scrambled chess) is introduced there will be no thrill in chess. A good defensive player can usually estimate his chances for draw rather early in the game, right after the opening, and do everything to keep the score if he is leading in the match.
– continue from 3-1
– Toiletnik must stay at the board, hot hide in the toilet
Ms Polgar
I feel that in your attempt to be polite and even handed you risk straying from what most of the chess world feels is right and fair.
Sometimes the truth does not lie between opposing points of view. Sometimes there is indeed a wrong and a right. This is an opportunity to take a stand for right.
I personally prefer Topolovs style and aggressive advocation of chess as a champion. However, he is wrong here.
His agents are an extension of himself.
1) Facing a 3-1 deficit, fearing loss and professional damage, his team launched a psychological attack on an empty pretext
2)FIDE reached an incorrect decision involving material breech of the players contract
Let us stand for what is right. In so doing, we advocate the cause of chess
Very Respectfully
“timothygmd said…
Let us stand for what is right. In so doing, we advocate the cause of chess
Very Respectfully”
True. Thats what we, the chess lover always wanted.
This is an awful situation that bares the tremendous egos of top chessplayers and the skullduggery of their minions, as Danilov is to Topalov. I think that Kramnik is completely correct in not dignifying this deceitful attempt at a cheap win. Should the forfeit not be reversed, this will have long lasting detrimental effects on the image of top chess for years to come. Shame on Topalov for partaking in his clown’s act.
Timothy,
I am sorry to disagree with you. I believe ANY player should have the right to complain if his / her opponent spent a lot of time in the bathroom.
My problem is the language and tone of the letter from Mr. Danailov, not the complaint itself.
Best wishes,
Susan Polgar
http://www.SusanPolgar.com
I agree with you, Susan, that any player should have the right to complain. But this did not need to hit the media and could have been done privately. Do you really think Topalov thought Kramnik was cheating, or just that he was using this for psychological advantage?? If the latter, then I have a serious problem with it and so should everyone else who wants to see chess played.
What about that smirk on Mr. Danailov’s face too?
Seirawan’s proposal is perfect solution. You are right that both sides have a point, but forfeit must not stand, both legally and because chess world only accepts results on the board. If Topalov refuses to play from 3-1, Kramnik will be accepted as valid champion due to his lead, but if Topalov wins match by forfeit we’ll be back to disputed championship.
3. Don’t care any more. Can’t care about a so-called world class event that grinds to a halt over a toilet dispute. Enjoy the circus, all ye who still care! 😉
Sick of it beyond description!!!
Do a Kaspy-Anand for the world title and i’m sure neither of those two would do such bizarre things..
my $0.02
As John Nunn just said : “The first extraordinary act was the handing over of the video of Kramnik in his rest room to Topalov’s team. This could easily be used against Kramnik, for example by seeing if he looked agitated after a particular move in the opening. This act was so obviously wrong that one can hardly imagine it being committed by an unbiased person.”
And so Susan, your opinion about a fair protest by Topalov team is completely wrong !! Sorry !
Topalov:”Russia is F.I.D.E. teritory”.
But isn’t Bulgaria Turk-Tatar-Mongolian(and who nows which it is but definitly not human)teritory?
“Vulgaris” in latin(byzantian)language means (funny but true)something vulgaric.The Byzantians(East Rome Empire)gived them teritorial name Vulgaria because the people there was mostly Turko-Mongol-Tatarian and completly war-criminaly-oriented and with no any civilisation caracteristic.When they come to the balcans they started to use the Slavic languages but they still haved some turko-mongolian names and “religions”.So that is why they wasn’t part of former Yugo-Slav federation(in Slavic languages Yugo means South)
Today they are the same.The Bulgarians today in their schools learn history which says that Bulagaria is start(mother)of 20 big imperias in history and 55 oficial U.N. countries.
Great Britain(England)reacted to E.U. for the decision Bulgaria to became part of E.U..Thay say that if the borders are opened for Bulgarians and their mafia and the criminal oriented people(which is betwin 20% and 40%)they will transform London in a Palermo-Sofia(in Sofia it is posible policeman to steal your car or to stop you sing and dance for you and waiting to pay him something and it was often before 2-3 years,now it is the same but more sofisticated criminal!!!!!)
So for me it is completly clear what is hapening at WCC.Mongolian tactics from Mongolians so what is there strange something?
Many people say that going to toilet very often is suspicios. Suspicious of what? As long as no one accuses anyone of cheating, what’s the problem?
Has anyone said out clearly that Kramnik is cheating? If not, then why shouldn’t he be allowed to go to toilet as often as he wishes? And on the other hand, if his toilet visits are considered as cheating, why not change the result of the first four games to 4-0 to Topalov?
Ms Polgar
I stand corrected (where I from time to time stand often) and agree, each player may protest. It is their right.
One may hope that protests are used when honest disagreements or valid concerns arise. Although I do not believe that happened here, it is a players right.
The cause of the problem, as you have identified, is that FIDE did not anticipate the issue. Worse, when it arose they did not adjudicate it fairly.
Even so, as a professional who has vast experience in this area and is an established advocate of ethics and sportsmanship in chess – I ask you not if Topalov was within his rights, but was he right ?
In my opinion, he violated the dictum of “lose with grace” by launching a psychological and political attack from a losing position in the most important chess match this century.
Ultimately, all a player (and organization) has is their honor and credibility. Can not Topalov (who was one of my heros) and FIDE see the damage they do to themselves ?
Very Respectfully
(PS thank you for all your hard work, balancing a profession which brings joy to us all with busy motherhood)
The rules were broken by FIDE based on the rules being changed outside of the 2 hour window which was agreed upon by EVERYONE prior to the start of the match, therefore game # 5 never really took place under the rules for the match.
Continu the match beginning with game 5, playing it out over the board. I can’t imagine any true fan of Topalov or chess for that matter wanting Topalov to have a forfeit point count. This is counter-productive and will simply be another thorn for FIDE for years to come.
Anonymous, your question “Suspicious about what?” is a good one. Kramnik says he went to the lavatory so frequently for two reasons: 1. he drinks a lot of water during games, and 2. he likes to pace while he’s at work. The first can’t explain the 50x per game, but the second surely can. Also, if he was using a computer in the bathroom, why would he have blundered away the second game (if Topalov had only seen it) in a combination a computer would spot in a milisecond?
Screw them both. Bobby is still champ. Bobby was never a crybaby. He said either give the fans a good non-draw match or I won’t be FIDE’s champion.
Game five is a forfeit loss for kramnik.
I do not agree with Topalov’s manager over not shaking hand. I have stated again and again that it is crossing the line.
Still, not having a personal bathroom is not grounds for Kramnik to boycott a game.
topalov followed the proper protocol in having his concerns heard. Kramnik should have done the same.
Kramnik knew who was on the appeals committee before he started the match.
Kramnik’s claim that change in conditions should be consulted with both players is silly because he agreed to the rule that each player can make pleas to the appeal committee.
So, I don’t see why Topalov should give up the point.
1. Yes
I believe game five should be ignored and lost by both players… just to consider making a mess next time. So the wcc for me should be 11 game match!! They should continue on game 6 with score 3-1…
Yes, the forfeit cannot stand because FIDE did not follow the rules and is clearly trying to help Danilov embarass and defeat Kramnik.
Why there are suspicions:
That Kramnik spent eighty two minutes in front of a bathroom door without entering and without having to go to another restroom proves that his “need” to go 50 times per game to the bathroom is false. Furthermore, he is suspected of using a small chess set to make moves physically while in the bathroom (the only place sans cameras) which gives the palyer a minimum of 300 Elo points of advantage. This is serious since neither player is searched for non-electronic devices. It also sheds a dark light on the Kasparov vs Kramnik match, since Kasparov complained (just like Topalov) that Kramnik made too many trips to the bathroom!
Let me repeat: Kramnik explanation of his frequent bathroom visits is completely insatisfactory. He claims that he uses it to “walk”. Is the bathroom so big that he can walk inside it for 1 to 2 minutes at a time? (he claims he uses it as an “extension” to the restroom yet he “disapears” inside for such lenghts of time many times, some obviously for actually relieving himself but many others for “walking”). His “need” to go to the restroom so frequently (and his “need” to walk so much because of his disease) was proven false by his “sit in” in front of the restroom for 82 minutes (60 minutes till the forfeit and 22 minutes before that until they starte the clock), he did not need to go a SINGLE time to the bathroom in that time span, nor he needed to walk “so much” during it. There are only two reasonable explanations for such behaviour: either Kramnik has some sort of psychiatric disorder that forces him to be in the restroom so frequently (his claimed inordinate “thirst” was also proven false in this 82 minute interval) or that he is “somehow” cheating. Since electronics are carefully inspected for (and there is even interference) we can rule out radio intervention and chess computers (except if he uses a sophisticated water pipe morse code like one source claims) so the only other way for him to cheat is by using said portable chess set.
ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE, SEALING THE TOILET, ETC WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE KRAMNIK HIDES THE CHESS SET IN HIS CLOTHES, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE ONE PROPOSED BY SEIRAWAN, THAT THERE IS SOMEONE PRESENT IN THE BATHROOM.
Return of the Hoaxmaker…
Yes, I have told this hoaxmaker to stop spamming several times. Soon I will probably make him stop.
Instead of “stoping” the “hoaxmaster” why not refute him? I want to know if what he says is true.
http://www.monaco-chess-club.com/blindfold.php
There are the stats from all the melodie ambert blind tournament for years.
Stats are good, then go to chessbase to watch the games! They are tremendous and full of thrill!
Kramnik is amongst the best blind player in the world, and this fact, he proved it several times.
Ivantchouk, Shirov , Morozevitch, and so and so many player of that generation can play chess blindly to a high degree of skillness.
They all agreed to say that vewing the real pieces can distract their concentration and make them blunder more often.
They are no beginner in this match who need to move pieces around before playing a move. There are player with a deep skill in blind calculation, which is for them more accurate in OTB match.
This hoaxmaker is a one neurone minded spammer.
What will be done against his spamm?
1. Yes.
Kramnik is right. I’d like to see him accept the forfeit–and go on to win the match–but he *deserves* his 2 point advantage.
2. No it should stand as forfiet
Topalov showed up to play as scheduled, brain-chip and all. Kramnik chose to stay away, therefore he should live with the consequences of his actions. The forfeit should stand.
In a match of equally talented chess players one playing blinfolded and the other playing OTB the one playing OTB will win EVERY TIME. This has been proven many times, please read the chessbase articles to see the enormous ELO difference between playing OTB and blinfold. Or google it. There are many serious scientific studies that study this (from the point of view of working memory and other cognitive fundamentals). Every chess player (no matter how good) has a limit in his/her calculation depth, this depth can be expanded by moving the pieces on a physical board.
What is the theory behind replaying game 5? That Kramnik is a petulant child who should get whatever he wants?
Look, I don’t agree with the decision of the arbitrators either. But you know what? I don’t agree with a lot of decisions that people make that affect my life. That doesn’t mean that I threaten to hold my breath until I turn blue unless I get my way.
Kramnik accepted the terms of the match, including the arbitrators. And the arbitrators made their decision. And under the terms of the match, his failure to play because he disagreed with their decision made the game a forfeit. Why should that forfeit be changed now that people think the decision of the arbitrators is questionable? That’s what arbitrators do — make decisions when the situation is questionable. And sometimes people will disagree with that decision. But they submit to the authority of the arbitrator and agree in advance to accept that decision.
So my answer is #2 — “No, It should stand as a forfeit loss.” And no, I’m not sick of it. I do still care. I want a unified champion.
— DSW
Chessbase article is chessbase article.
Average players are average players.
A knight is a Knight.
S. Krylov (2387) – V. Ivantchouk 2731
Défense Petroff
1.e4 e5 2.Cf3 Cf6 3.Cxe5 d6 4.Cf3 Cxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Fd3 Fd6 7.0–0 0–0 8.c4 c6 9.Cc3 Cxc3 10.bxc3 dxc4 11.Fxc4 Fg4 12.Dd3 Cd7 13.Te1 b5 14.Cg5 Cf6 15.Fb3 Dc7 16.h3 Fh5 17.Ce4 Cxe4 18.Dxe4 Fg6 19.De2 a5 20.a4 b4 21.cxb4 axb4 22.Fd2 Tab8 23.Tac1 Nulle
Sometimes man performs well sometimes not….
i agree with #1 if the match continues but i also kinda lean towards #3. But the point shouldn’t go to topalov.
Kramnik loses a point for not showing up, just like Fischer in Game 2 in 1972.
Anyone who thinks the game should stand as a forfeit loss is not a chess player. For Susan Polgar to even bring this up as a serious question shows her bias. Clearly she is siding with Topalov, Danailov and the FIDE criminals.
Obviously Bobby is still champ.
Kirsan says Kramnik’s technical loss can be cancelled, so be it!
1. Play on from Game 5 from 3-1 score.
Reasoning: It was the arbiter’s gigantic error to start that game. Topalov’s appeal should not have been accepted in the first place while Kramnik’s wasn’t even given any importance.
The committee’s decision to start game 5 should be deemed illegal by Kirsan and the match should continue with the score 3-1.
Kramnik lost the point, that is clear: he disregarded the decision of the effective tournament directors, and should have played in protest.
He can go into his waiting room, outside the crapper, if he wants to pace.
Topalov had every right to complain (though doing it publicly, with letters to the media, was a despicable tactic), FIDE had every right to change the bathroom rules (see the great analysis by a lawyer here, and Kramnik reacted like a spoilt little baby, banging his rattle because he didn’t get his way.
Chess selects for social misfits. It will always be that way.
The conditions of the 5th match was modified and Kramnik was totally in this rights in refusing to play. Topalov have no proofs to claim that Kramnik is a cheater so in my opinion the forfeit should be cancelled.
3-1.
To All OTB chess tournament players:
Since world champion contender (or the actual world champion?) Vladimir Kramnik was declared innocent of all wrong doing in his match against Topalov a unique opportunity has arisen: to cheat with impunity. The next time you play in a tournament simply use an inexpensive pocket chess board to study all the moves you want to make in the actual game while hidding in the bathroom. Leave the board before making any critical move and “calculate” with the aid of the chess set at your leisure. We guarantee a “gain” of hudreds of ELO points with this simple expedient. FIDE and USCF players will benefit greatly from this legal precedent. If you are caught or accused of suspicious behaviour just say “I am using Kramnik’s cheat technique and it has been endorsed by FIDE”.
Enjoy.
1.Protest was lodged outside the 2 hour window and should not have been considered that day.
2.No wrongdoing was found, thus no right to punish Kramnik.
3.Contract specified that playing conditions could not be changed except by agreement.
Score 3-1
But I can’t see Topalov giving up the point.
As Kramnik pointed out, Topalov’s protest violated the match rules, having been filed more than two hours after the fourth game. The committee’s ruling also violated the match rules, which stated that match conditions would not be changed without the consent of both players. The committee should put an attendant in each restroom, as Seirawan suggested, and restart the match at 3-1.
If Topalov demands the point, the match will end and Topalov, down two points in the played games, will “win” by forfeit. Does he really want that? He will be ridiculed for the rest of his life, and the game will have another huge black eye.
Ilyumzhinov is talking as if the forfeit stands/or not issue is negotiable for him and that he hopes for a compromise.
I think Kramnik is right, but in the interests of continuing the match (and I think this is what Ilyumzhinov is hinting at as a solution) – game 5 should be declared null (1/2). That way Kramnik has lost the chance for a win with white, and Topalov has put a draw with black in the bag without playing a move.
Bathrooms? If Kramnik needs to pace, maybe make the restrooms larger and limit bathroom visits to a certain number per hour according to the advice of an independent doctor with access to the relevant data.
Such ideas might not be completely right but they are at least in the right spirit.
M
Why is noone asking what Kramnik was doing in the bathroom? Why go so many times? Is that a mind/gamesmanship thing?
I agree with GM Yasser Seirawan’s statements. Game 5 s/b next game, no forfeit win for criminal crybaby Topalov and manager team. I use to like Topalov but now I can’t stand him and feel the chess world organizers should ban him from Chess tournaments and matches for one year as punishment for his bad sportsmanship behavoir for attacking Kramnik without any legal proof!
Anonymous asked: “Why is noone asking what Kramnik was doing in the bathroom? Why go so many times? Is that a mind/gamesmanship thing?”
What if the answer is this: Kramnik suspected that the Topalov team is inspecting the video recordings showing Kramnik’s restroom. So Kramnik wanted to give them something to think about…
If this is true then Kramnik’s team wanted to do the same to Kasparov’s team, since he displayed the same odd behaviour in their match.
there was no legal status for game 5. the whole question is absurde.
susan: you are not as neutral as you claim to be. just have a look at your manipulation (or do i have to say “artwork”?) on Topalov/Kramnik pictures shown here on this blog!
it´s no problem if you promote topalov, but remain fair and honest:
don´t tell us you don´t take sides. your comments tell a different story!
To quote Thomas Paine (December, 1776):
“These are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated. Britain, with an army to enforce her tyranny, has declared that she has a right (not only to TAX) but “to BIND us in ALL CASES WHATSOEVER” and if being bound in that manner, is not slavery, then is there not such a thing as slavery upon earth. Even the expression is impious; for so unlimited a power can belong only to God.”
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And, as humanity in the developed nations of the earth has risen above tyranny in the modern age, let this crisis be settled by compromise.
Laws are written by people, and are thus changed by people.
Let this crisis, and its resolution be resolved in a fair, open, manner. Let both litigants state their position, weigh the situation impartially, then render a decision.
I will not pretend to tell anyone what that resolution should or could be. The litigants and FIDE are reasonable adults, likely some of the most intelligent on the face of this earth.
Remember, in any win-lose competition, as in war, each side first and foremost hungers to vanquish the other.
If someone had told me Topalov would have accepted a point in such circumstances a few weeks ago, I would have laughed.
The appeal by Topalovs team was made outside the times prescribed by the rules. The results of the appeal committees deliberations were delivered too late according to the rules. The appeals committee at no point gave any right to reply by the accused player, and then went on to change the playing conditions without consultation, also in breech of the agreed rules of the match.
Kramnik had every right to not play in match circumstances changed in such a flagrently biased and illegal manner.
To take one point from him in such circumstances would be an extreme travesty.
The game must continue with game 5 and the score at 3-1. Anyone who thinks differently is either hopelessly biased, or not in possesion of the facts as posted by both teams and FIDE.
The score should remain 3-1, with 5th game to play. Topalov knew that Kramnik would not show up over protest of his treatment. Topalov saw a cheap easy win by forfiet as Balck. This is low class!! It would have been very sporting to lodge his complaint, it be reviewd and both sides come to acceptable terms before any clock was started. Topalov was all to eager to sign the forfiet score sheet! He needs to release his manager of his duties and find another. He has done him a great diservice.
2. NO. It should stand as a forfeit loss.