I quickly realized the stupidity of my first idea: 1. Qc4+ Kf2 2. Qf4+ Kg1 3. Qxe3+ Winning the pawn simply can’t be of any value here:-)
Next idea looks more promising: 1. Nd4+ Ke1 2. Qc2 zugzwang
Black king can’t move, not the queen either since it must protect e2, and Qf2 fails to Qc1#.
2. … e2 (enforced) 3. Qd3 zugzwang again, I think… 3. … Kf2 (alternatives below) 4. Qf3+ Kg1 (Ke1 Nc2#) 5. Nxe2+ wins queen or 3. … Qf2 4. Qb1#/Nc2# or 3. … Qg2 (otherwise Qxe2#, so it seems enforced)
Now note that black still has no checks due to excellent Nd4.
Here I thought about 4.Qe3, but that seems to allow Kf1, I don’t like Kf1. Interesting is: 4. Qf5(!?) again enforcing a Q move, and now N check mating is a huge threat. However, this is where I start to become uncertain about things….
My first thought is to try to see if anything promising arises from Nd4 with double check:
1. Nd4 Ke1 (Kd1?? 2.Qa/b1#) 2. Qb1
I can’t see any other way to continue this line- the queen must now close in on the black king. Continuing:
2. …..Kf2 3. Qf5
Anything better here? If white plays Qc2+, black can play e2 with with good counterplay, and I just don’t see a winning line for white. Continuing:
3. …..Ke1
Not completely sure, but Kg2 or Kg1 should still be ok for black to not lose. Continuing:
4. Nc2 Ke2 5. Qd3 Kf2 6. Qe3
If 6.Ne3, then Qxd3 draws. Continuing:
6. …..Kg2
So, white can win the e-pawn by force while retaining the knight, but now has the problem of denying black a draw by repetition. I know most Q+N vs Q endings are drawn by force unless the enemy king is somehow trapped on the edge of the board, so the only possible continuation from here is the knight check from e1:
7. Ne1 Kh1
I think Kh2 is going to be similar since the Nf3+ is of no value without the involvement of the white king. Continuing:
This is the key line here. Black didn’t have to let the king get pinned in at h1, but I just want to show that this doesn’t matter without the white king’s help and freedom from check for one move- the black queen is defense enough for black due to the endless checks she can deliver:
12. …..Qd3 13. Kb2 Qc2
Stalemate on 13.Kxd3 or 14.Kxc2. We can see that the white king will never escape the black queen since she can deliver the checks point blank with a draw certain is she is captured by the white king.
I clearly need another strategy to win this for white. I have an idea of what it involves, but no clear plan to get there right now. Back to the drawing board.
In my previous comment, I discussed a play to win the e-pawn by starting with Nd4, but in that line, I showed that black obtains a draw if you let the black king out of the hole at e2/e1- he gets away from the white king, and the queen and knight alone are not enough to win vs the black queen and knight in the position that arises. So, starting from the same beginning, it did occur to me to try something different that keeps the black king hemmed in by his own men and the white king:
1. Nd4 Ke1 2. Qh2
This move actually occurred to me when I noticed that Qf6+ was no longer an immediate problem for white, so white had time to wait and force black to move. Black has to decide what move to make. The black queen cannot leave the guard on e2 so she can move safely to f2 or a6 without allowing mate on the next move. Black king move the king to d1 only, or he can move the e-pawn. I will have to take each in order:
2. …..Qf2 3. Nc2 Kf1
Here it gets complicated. Let’s look at the alternatives: [3. …Ke2 4.Qh5 Kf1 (or 4. …Qf3 5.Nd4+-) 5.Qh1 Qg1 (or 5. …Ke2 6.Nd4#) 6.Qf3 Qf2 7.Ne3 Kg1 (or 7. …Ke1 8.Qd1#) 8.Qd1 Kh2 9.Ng4+-] so my instincts in my previous comments were not completely correct- there are other threats in the Q+N vs Q- forking ones; or [3. …Kd1 4.Qh1 Ke2 5.Nd4#]; and 3. …Qc2 is a rather trivial win for white. Continuing from move 3 above:
4. Qh1 Qg1 (again, Ke2 5.Nd4#) 5. Qf3 Qf2 6. Ne3 Kg1 (again, Ke1 7.Qd1#) 7. Qd1 Kh2 (or still lose queen) 8. Ng4+ wins black’s queen exactly as we saw in the note above following black’s third move. The threats of forks like this last one are decisive in this line. The setup in the previous comment never allowed the sort of threats seen from move 4 onward above unless I just missed them.
So, now let’s turn to 2. …Qa6:
1. Nd4 Ke1 2. Qh2 Qa6 3. Qg1 Qf1 (only move) 4. Qe3 and mate by Qd2 or Qxe2 can’t be prevented.
Now for 2. …e2:
1. Nd4 Ke1 2. Qh2 e2 3. Nc2! Kd1 4. Qd6! Kc1 5. Qa3 and 6.Qa1# can’t be prevented.
So, I am left with 2. …Kd1, and I have to admit that after a half hour, I don’t have a clue how to proceed. I have to believe I am on the right track, but I just don’t see how to continue as white right now
The first move is easy to spot and the winning line has to come from a knight fork. But it is difficult to get there. I accidentally stumbled and do not know if the Black’s response is the best in every move
1.Nd4+ Ke1 (1.Nd4+ Kd1 2.Qb1#) 2.Qh2 Kd1 (the Queen has to get on to the other side to prevent the King from running away) 3.Qh7 (the threat of Qb1#) Ke1 4.Qh4+ Qf2 5.Nc2+ Ke2 6.Qh5+ Kf1 7.Qh3+ Ke2 8.Qh5+ Kf1 9.Qh1+ Qg1 10.Qf3+ Qf2 11.Nxe3+ Kg1 12.Qd1+ Kh2 13.Ng4+ Kg2 14.Nxf2
Hey folks. If you are not 100% sure about Qh2, could you please take a closer look into:
1. Nd4 Ke1 2. Qc2! e2 because of zugzwang, Kd1 or Qf2 failed to Qb1, all other Q moves to Qe2# (or Nxf3). Now it looks like black creates him self a brilliant escape field on f2 and shall even promote his pawn, but it’s not quite that easy:
3. Qe4!! Qh3+ Only move since Kf2? fails to Qf3+ Kg1 (Ke1 Nc2#) Nxe2+ winning queen. 4. Kb2 Only reasonable move, Nf3+ is nothing. 4. … Qh5 Only move since there was no check, e2 had to be protected, and Qh2 failed to Nf3+.
Now this is terribly exciting, but could not some of you continue this line?
My basic idea here was that pawn shall probably to e2, whereafter surprising zugzwang motivs arise, and king becomes increasingly claustrophobic. My suggestion for a critical line was: 1. Nd4 Ke1 2. Qc2 e2 3. Qe4 Qh3+ 4. Kb2 (hard to check) and is very pleased if you can either continue it, or correct it… One question, can black now allow: 4. … Kf2 5. Qxe2+ Kg3 etc…
I did look at your line yesterday when I was studying the problem. 2.Qc2 was one of the moves I had in mind when I finally settled on Qh2. Here are some of the reasons why I thought it was weaker for white:
1. Nd4 Ke1 2. Qc2 e2 3. Qe4 Qh3 4. Kb2
I will discuss other moves in just a few minutes. Here, the white king has given up control of d2. Continuing:
4. …..Qf1 (keeping eye on f3)
As black, I am not afraid of checks from h4 with the black queen since I now have a hole at d2 and can, if allowed start checking the white king from c1 when my king is at d2, push e1Q, or have my king escape the edge of the board through e3 or d3: [5.Qh4 Kd2 6.Qg5 Kd3 etc.]. Also, I am not afraid of knight checks in this position: [5.Nf3 Kf2 6.Qf4 (or 6.Nd2 Qc1! 7.Kc1 e1Q draws easily) 6. …e1Q draws]. So, can white bring the king back to c2?
5. Kc2 Qg2!
The tight trap on black’s king has some bad consequences for white! Of course, now, 5.Qxg2 will be stalemate. Continuing:
6. Qf5
Here, 6.Nf3 leads nowhere for the same reasons as 6.Qxg2: [6.Nf3 Qf3! 7.Qf3 stalemates]. If white tries a move like Qf4, black can play Qc6+ since Nxc6 is still stalemate.
6. …..Qf2
Here, 6. …Qc6 is probably still ok, but not as clear to me with the white queen on f5 instead of f4: [6. …Qc6 7.Kd3 Qa6 8.Ke3 Qa3 9.Ke4 etc.]. Continuing:
As Ravi notes, this threatens Qb1#, so black must either check from e1, or move the king to e1 so that he can escape Qb1 through f2. Both lose. Ravi provides the right continuation for the Ke1 line:
3. …..Ke1 (Qe1+ see below) 4. Qh4 Qf2
Or [4. …Kd1 5.Qe4! (threatens Qb1 again, but from a closer square where Qe3 is now possible) 5. …Qe1+ (or 5. …Ke1 6.Qe3 mates in 1 more) 6.Kb3! Qd2 (or 6. …Qf2 7.Qb1 Kd2 8.Qc2 Ke1 9.Qc1#; or 6. …Qf1 7.Qb1 Kd2 8.Qf1+-) 7.Nf3! Ke2 (or 7. …Qc1 8.Qd3 Qd2 9.Qf1 Qe1 10.Qe1#; or 7. …Qe2 8.Qb1#; or 7. …Qf2 8.Qb1 Ke2 9.Nd4 Kd2 10.Qc2 Ke1 11.Qc1#) 8.Nd2 Kd2 9.Qc2 with a trivial win.]. Continuing from move 4 above:
5. Nc2 Ke2
Or we transpose into lines I covered yesterday: [5. …Kf1 6.Qh1 Qg1 (or 6. …Ke2 7.Nd4#) 7.Qf3 Qf2 8.Ne3 Kg1 (or 8. …Ke1 9.Qd1#) 9.Qd1 Kh2 10.Ng4+-]; or [5. …Kd1 6.Qh1 Ke2 7.Nd4#]. Continuing from move 5 above:
6. Qh5! Kf1 (Qf3 7.Nd4+-) 7. Qh1 Qg1 (Ke2 8.Nd4# again) 8. Qf3 and I have covered this line more than once already in my comments.
I simply overlooked 3.Qh7 yesterday. Good job, Ravi.
Kd4#
1. Nd4+ (Kd1 or Ke1)
2. Qd2#
hiDB =)
Qa6+ wins the queen.. It may take longer to mate, but it’s still a win. 😛
Sorry. Just saw Kf2 after Qa6+.
Need to think for a while, but I feel Nd4+ wud be the first move.
My first impulse would be to move Qe6… Have no idea why.
I quickly realized the stupidity of my first idea:
1. Qc4+ Kf2
2. Qf4+ Kg1
3. Qxe3+
Winning the pawn simply can’t be of any value here:-)
Next idea looks more promising:
1. Nd4+ Ke1
2. Qc2 zugzwang
Black king can’t move, not the queen either since it must protect e2, and Qf2 fails to Qc1#.
2. … e2 (enforced)
3. Qd3 zugzwang again, I think…
3. … Kf2 (alternatives below)
4. Qf3+ Kg1 (Ke1 Nc2#)
5. Nxe2+ wins queen
or
3. … Qf2
4. Qb1#/Nc2#
or
3. … Qg2 (otherwise Qxe2#, so it seems enforced)
Now note that black still has no checks due to excellent Nd4.
Here I thought about 4.Qe3, but that seems to allow Kf1, I don’t like Kf1. Interesting is:
4. Qf5(!?)
again enforcing a Q move, and now N check mating is a huge threat.
However, this is where I start to become uncertain about things….
My first thought is to try to see if anything promising arises from Nd4 with double check:
1. Nd4 Ke1 (Kd1?? 2.Qa/b1#)
2. Qb1
I can’t see any other way to continue this line- the queen must now close in on the black king. Continuing:
2. …..Kf2
3. Qf5
Anything better here? If white plays Qc2+, black can play e2 with with good counterplay, and I just don’t see a winning line for white. Continuing:
3. …..Ke1
Not completely sure, but Kg2 or Kg1 should still be ok for black to not lose. Continuing:
4. Nc2 Ke2
5. Qd3 Kf2
6. Qe3
If 6.Ne3, then Qxd3 draws. Continuing:
6. …..Kg2
So, white can win the e-pawn by force while retaining the knight, but now has the problem of denying black a draw by repetition. I know most Q+N vs Q endings are drawn by force unless the enemy king is somehow trapped on the edge of the board, so the only possible continuation from here is the knight check from e1:
7. Ne1 Kh1
I think Kh2 is going to be similar since the Nf3+ is of no value without the involvement of the white king. Continuing:
8. Qh6 Kg1
9. Qg4 Kf2 (Kh2/1 ok, too?)
10.Qh4 Kg1 (Ke2 still ok)
11.Qg3 Kh1
12.Nf3
This is the key line here. Black didn’t have to let the king get pinned in at h1, but I just want to show that this doesn’t matter without the white king’s help and freedom from check for one move- the black queen is defense enough for black due to the endless checks she can deliver:
12. …..Qd3
13. Kb2 Qc2
Stalemate on 13.Kxd3 or 14.Kxc2. We can see that the white king will never escape the black queen since she can deliver the checks point blank with a draw certain is she is captured by the white king.
I clearly need another strategy to win this for white. I have an idea of what it involves, but no clear plan to get there right now. Back to the drawing board.
In my previous comment, I discussed a play to win the e-pawn by starting with Nd4, but in that line, I showed that black obtains a draw if you let the black king out of the hole at e2/e1- he gets away from the white king, and the queen and knight alone are not enough to win vs the black queen and knight in the position that arises. So, starting from the same beginning, it did occur to me to try something different that keeps the black king hemmed in by his own men and the white king:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qh2
This move actually occurred to me when I noticed that Qf6+ was no longer an immediate problem for white, so white had time to wait and force black to move. Black has to decide what move to make. The black queen cannot leave the guard on e2 so she can move safely to f2 or a6 without allowing mate on the next move. Black king move the king to d1 only, or he can move the e-pawn. I will have to take each in order:
2. …..Qf2
3. Nc2 Kf1
Here it gets complicated. Let’s look at the alternatives: [3. …Ke2 4.Qh5 Kf1 (or 4. …Qf3 5.Nd4+-) 5.Qh1 Qg1 (or 5. …Ke2 6.Nd4#) 6.Qf3 Qf2 7.Ne3 Kg1 (or 7. …Ke1 8.Qd1#) 8.Qd1 Kh2 9.Ng4+-] so my instincts in my previous comments were not completely correct- there are other threats in the Q+N vs Q- forking ones; or [3. …Kd1 4.Qh1 Ke2 5.Nd4#]; and 3. …Qc2 is a rather trivial win for white. Continuing from move 3 above:
4. Qh1 Qg1 (again, Ke2 5.Nd4#)
5. Qf3 Qf2
6. Ne3 Kg1 (again, Ke1 7.Qd1#)
7. Qd1 Kh2 (or still lose queen)
8. Ng4+ wins black’s queen exactly as we saw in the note above following black’s third move. The threats of forks like this last one are decisive in this line. The setup in the previous comment never allowed the sort of threats seen from move 4 onward above unless I just missed them.
So, now let’s turn to 2. …Qa6:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qh2 Qa6
3. Qg1 Qf1 (only move)
4. Qe3 and mate by Qd2 or Qxe2 can’t be prevented.
Now for 2. …e2:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qh2 e2
3. Nc2! Kd1
4. Qd6! Kc1
5. Qa3 and 6.Qa1# can’t be prevented.
So, I am left with 2. …Kd1, and I have to admit that after a half hour, I don’t have a clue how to proceed. I have to believe I am on the right track, but I just don’t see how to continue as white right now
1. Nd4+ Kd1
I think 1st move is forced because otherwise, black king escape. Black reply is forced as well.
2.?
second move is the toughgest and we must avoid black to check. Remember that black can check on a1 if white’s queen do not guard it.
The critical line is:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qh2 Kd1
Anyone have an idea-even just a partial one?
The first move is easy to spot and the winning line has to come from a knight fork. But it is difficult to get there. I accidentally stumbled and do not know if the Black’s response is the best in every move
1.Nd4+ Ke1
(1.Nd4+ Kd1 2.Qb1#)
2.Qh2 Kd1 (the Queen has to get on to the other side to prevent the King from running away)
3.Qh7 (the threat of Qb1#) Ke1
4.Qh4+ Qf2
5.Nc2+ Ke2
6.Qh5+ Kf1
7.Qh3+ Ke2
8.Qh5+ Kf1
9.Qh1+ Qg1
10.Qf3+ Qf2
11.Nxe3+ Kg1
12.Qd1+ Kh2
13.Ng4+ Kg2
14.Nxf2
Hey folks.
If you are not 100% sure about Qh2, could you please take a closer look into:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qc2! e2
because of zugzwang, Kd1 or Qf2 failed to Qb1, all other Q moves to Qe2# (or Nxf3).
Now it looks like black creates him self a brilliant escape field on f2 and shall even promote his pawn, but it’s not quite that easy:
3. Qe4!! Qh3+
Only move since Kf2? fails to Qf3+ Kg1 (Ke1 Nc2#) Nxe2+ winning queen.
4. Kb2
Only reasonable move, Nf3+ is nothing.
4. … Qh5
Only move since there was no check, e2 had to be protected, and Qh2 failed to Nf3+.
Now this is terribly exciting, but could not some of you continue this line?
My basic idea here was that pawn shall probably to e2, whereafter surprising zugzwang motivs arise, and king becomes increasingly claustrophobic.
My suggestion for a critical line was:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qc2 e2
3. Qe4 Qh3+
4. Kb2 (hard to check)
and is very pleased if you can either continue it, or correct it…
One question, can black now allow:
4. … Kf2
5. Qxe2+ Kg3 etc…
pht,
I did look at your line yesterday when I was studying the problem. 2.Qc2 was one of the moves I had in mind when I finally settled on Qh2. Here are some of the reasons why I thought it was weaker for white:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qc2 e2
3. Qe4 Qh3
4. Kb2
I will discuss other moves in just a few minutes. Here, the white king has given up control of d2. Continuing:
4. …..Qf1 (keeping eye on f3)
As black, I am not afraid of checks from h4 with the black queen since I now have a hole at d2 and can, if allowed start checking the white king from c1 when my king is at d2, push e1Q, or have my king escape the edge of the board through e3 or d3: [5.Qh4 Kd2 6.Qg5 Kd3 etc.]. Also, I am not afraid of knight checks in this position: [5.Nf3 Kf2 6.Qf4 (or 6.Nd2 Qc1! 7.Kc1 e1Q draws easily) 6. …e1Q draws]. So, can white bring the king back to c2?
5. Kc2 Qg2!
The tight trap on black’s king has some bad consequences for white! Of course, now, 5.Qxg2 will be stalemate. Continuing:
6. Qf5
Here, 6.Nf3 leads nowhere for the same reasons as 6.Qxg2: [6.Nf3 Qf3! 7.Qf3 stalemates]. If white tries a move like Qf4, black can play Qc6+ since Nxc6 is still stalemate.
6. …..Qf2
Here, 6. …Qc6 is probably still ok, but not as clear to me with the white queen on f5 instead of f4: [6. …Qc6 7.Kd3 Qa6 8.Ke3 Qa3 9.Ke4 etc.]. Continuing:
7. Qd3 Kf1
8. Qh3 Kg1
9. Nf3 Qf3!
10.Qf3 e1N! forks and draws.
So, at move 4, white could have blocked the queen check with Nf3+:
4. Nf3+ Kf2
Double attacking the pinned knight who cannot be saved. Or
4. Kc2 Qg2 and we saw this position above, of course. Or
4. Kb4 Qh2
5. Nf3 Kf2
6. Nh2 e1Q+ draws. Or, to prevent this queening check:
4. Kc4 Qc8+
5. Kd3 Qa6
6. Ke3 Qa3
7. Kf4 Qf8 etc.
Ravi,
3. Qh7 looks good!!
From the top:
1. Nd4 Ke1
2. Qh2 Kd1
3. Qh7!
As Ravi notes, this threatens Qb1#, so black must either check from e1, or move the king to e1 so that he can escape Qb1 through f2. Both lose. Ravi provides the right continuation for the Ke1 line:
3. …..Ke1 (Qe1+ see below)
4. Qh4 Qf2
Or [4. …Kd1 5.Qe4! (threatens Qb1 again, but from a closer square where Qe3 is now possible) 5. …Qe1+ (or 5. …Ke1 6.Qe3 mates in 1 more) 6.Kb3! Qd2 (or 6. …Qf2 7.Qb1 Kd2 8.Qc2 Ke1 9.Qc1#; or 6. …Qf1 7.Qb1 Kd2 8.Qf1+-) 7.Nf3! Ke2 (or 7. …Qc1 8.Qd3 Qd2 9.Qf1 Qe1 10.Qe1#; or 7. …Qe2 8.Qb1#; or 7. …Qf2 8.Qb1 Ke2 9.Nd4 Kd2 10.Qc2 Ke1 11.Qc1#) 8.Nd2 Kd2 9.Qc2 with a trivial win.]. Continuing from move 4 above:
5. Nc2 Ke2
Or we transpose into lines I covered yesterday: [5. …Kf1 6.Qh1 Qg1 (or 6. …Ke2 7.Nd4#) 7.Qf3 Qf2 8.Ne3 Kg1 (or 8. …Ke1 9.Qd1#) 9.Qd1 Kh2 10.Ng4+-]; or [5. …Kd1 6.Qh1 Ke2 7.Nd4#]. Continuing from move 5 above:
6. Qh5! Kf1 (Qf3 7.Nd4+-)
7. Qh1 Qg1 (Ke2 8.Nd4# again)
8. Qf3 and I have covered this line more than once already in my comments.
I simply overlooked 3.Qh7 yesterday. Good job, Ravi.
Good job Yancey and Ravi to have progressively unearthed the main line.
Source: Tal and Pogosyants, 64 #119, 7.11.1969