Experts divided over cheating allegation against Topalov
Leonard Barden
Monday January 29, 2007
The Guardian
A new cheating allegation against Veselin Topalov was made at the weekend just as the world No1-ranked grandmaster started his grudge game against the world champion, Vladimir Kramnik, in the elite Corus tournament…
…It later emerged that the writer of the article, the international master Martin Breutigam, is an associate of Kramnik’s manager, Carsten Hensel. Last week a Topalov aide published a book titled Toilet War, repeating and extending the allegations that Kramnik had himself used a computer aid during their 2006 world title series in Elista in Russia…
Both Van Wely, who attributed his 35-move defeat to being outplayed, and the chief arbiter voiced no suspicions.
…It also emerged yesterday that the former Fide champion Rustam Kasimdzhanov and Russia’s world No8 Alexander Morozevich believed there had been irregularities when Topalov won the world title in San Luis, Argentina, in 2005.
Here is the full article. You can also read it here.
Now we know the memebrs of the Russian mafia gang: Kramnik, Rustam, Morozevich, … who elsae are assusing Topalov?
Good article.
Topalov will have to find another person now to signal in the moves.
Could this be the end of Topalov..and the beginning of Topalitz!!??
I am finding it harder and harder to keep an open mind on Topalov and Danailov.
But if they were smart and have some video, then maybe they have something here.
But I want to see the video for myself.
this is posted over on Mig’s Chess Ninja boards. But not by Mig himself.
http://www.chessninja.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001443;p=3
posted January 28, 2007 11:27 PM
——————————————————————————–
I think Topalov’s dramatic rise started from Libya WC. He won 9 games on the trot or something like that. His loss came came only in rapids. On the way he knocked out Radjabov also in semis I think. The rating rise also started from here only. Then he used Sophia tournament to firm it up and land as the No 1. Before the Libya WC he was not very active or not performing at this 2800 level. Then he used San louis to become the WCC by winning 6.5/7 just drawing the game to Anand which he had a won position on the board which he misplayed in time trouble. There also his game against Leko, he had a minus position, which somehow he won.
Funny how Topalovs performance takes a boost whenever Danailov arrives, just like Essent after the WC. Topalov was getting creamed in the first few rounds until Danailov joined him, and then, as if by magic, he improved.
Moral support? Or something a little more tangible.
Wouldnt it be ironic if after all the mud Topalov has been slinging around it turns out to be he who has cheated all along. Somehow its very easy to believe too.
Anon 12:27am
“Topalov will have to find another person now to signal in the moves.”
Did you watch the movie called “Prestige” ? If you did, you should have known that, it is difficult to keep the third party quiet, and yet more difficult to satisfy his/her increasing demands. The third party would definitely request his/her share.
Life will get more and more difficult for Dana and Topa as they are under the spotlights now. If I were to play a game agains Topa, I would ask a friend of mine, or hire someone to record the actions of both of them during the game period using a video recorder.
Susan,
You forgot to quote the following from the article :
“However, there is believed to be as yet unpublished video footage of Danailov which has been shown to the all-time No1 Garry Kasparov, who thought that there were questions to answer.”
It must be getting hot for our lovely pair.
Experts divided ? Really ?
Ok, one one side we have a former world champion Kasimdzhanov, a master of attacking play Morozevich, and Kasparov the great.
Who are the experts that are on the other side supporting Topalov against cheating allegations ?
THE WORLD’s MOST PATHETIC WC kramnik has declined to participate in Linares/Morelia. i guess drawing most of his games in corus has been too straining for this loser. i am sick of this sissy. when topa won san luis and was declared a true champ, he took part in every tournament after this to prove he’s the best, and he showed how a true champ should act. cheating or not i dont care – kramnik can never be considered a champion in the eyes of the real chess fans.
“Experts divided ? Really ?
Ok, one one side we have a former world champion Kasimdzhanov, a master of attacking play Morozevich, and Kasparov the great.
Who are the experts that are on the other side supporting Topalov against cheating allegations ?”
Well, for instance everyone else?
I’d like to see some quotes to see what these GMs actually said. Until then I am skeptical about them accusing Toplaov of cheating.
I’d like to see the video too.
So far these are only rumors.
I am just asking questions myself:
1. Why is it so easy to believe that Topalov cheated while it is unbelievable that Kramnik could be a cheater.
2. Why do people believe in cheating just because someone saw Danailov bite his fingernails in two games
3. Why do people trust Kramnik although Internet cables were found in the holy toilet which he visited 50 times per game?
4. Why does Topalov need Danailov’s assistance only in two games and these games were against the “chess machines” Van Welly and Karjakin, but he didn’t need assistance in all the rest – including the derby games? I could call this a metamorphosis.
5. Why did this article appear just before the game Topalov-Kramnik and the author by incident is close to the kramnik’s team?
6. Why everybody accuses Topalov for cheating without being banned for unethical attitude? Is it like – Topalov is available for cheating accusations wherever and whenever convenient for everybody. He is not a man to be honoured or respected.
7. Can someone come out with a single well-grounded statement about the method of cheating. We’ve come through wireless technology signaling, brain chip implants, and now nail biting? Isn’t this ridiculous?
8. Could it be that some people can not live over the fact that Chess Player No1 is some bulgarian?
9. Could it be the fact that Russia is trying to rule the chess as they did with whole Eastern Europe some time ago?
10. Can someone tell me why 80% of Kramnik’s games were some calm and peaceful? Maybe this is somehow related to the USSR origin of the 80% of the participants in Corus?
I am just thinking and asking myself. No answers needed.
i just remeber that was kramnik TO STAY HOURS INN A BATH, NOT TOPALOV. COULD KRAMNIK GIVE A REAL ANSWER TO THIS PATHETIC BEHAVIOR?
kramnik learns to lose, topalov is the n1 and strongest, you dont win anything,no tourney. that is all, and he is sad.
If Topalov has really been cheating it will not be so hard to proove… but before the authorities investigate the case and announce if he is guilty or not everyone should keep their respect for Topalov as one of the great GM of our time
I have another question:
11. How is it possible to pull off such a simple and obvious cheating routine without being caught for at least a year and a half, while constantly being under the spotlight because of being No. 1 and because of cheating accusations?
The other players, managers, referees, audience, journalists, etc surely must be blind or involved in the conspiracy?
If the accusations are proved, the Danailov/Toplaov Duo would surely make the greatest illusionist act ever
“3. Why do people trust Kramnik although Internet cables were found in the holy toilet which he visited 50 times per game?”
There are many bullshits in your post. But the above one is the most obvious lie. Kramnik did NOT visit toilet 50 times per game. It was such a big lie that even the appeals committee which was formed by business partners of Danailov like Azmaiparashvilli declared in written form that 50 was a gross exaggeration. And the further question is : How did Kramnik utilize that cable ? Both players were being searched with metal detectors before they enter the game venue.
You know that Topalov is going down big time and you just come up with these accusations to muddy the water.
The topic being discussed here is whether Topalov is cheating or not. And Kasparov believes that there are questions to be answered. That’s a very important fact. Not all these newspapers might be involved in a conspiracy against Topalov.
If you are so sure that Topalov did not and is not cheating why are you coming up with these accusations against Kramnik so fast.
Topalov is goind down and so you are.
“10. Can someone tell me why 80% of Kramnik’s games were some calm and peaceful? Maybe this is somehow related to the USSR origin of the 80% of the participants in Corus?”
Yes you are right. Putin decided that the only way to world domination is through chess, he revitalized KGB and applying pressure to his Soviet opponents (oops ex-Soviet).
You should start taking your medications man. You started seeing paranoid halucinations again.
“8. Could it be that some people can not live over the fact that Chess Player No1 is some bulgarian?”
yes we all think that bulgarians are apes.
1. Why is it so easy to believe that Topalov cheated while it is unbelievable that Kramnik could be a cheater.
Because Topalovs rating rocketed in his 30s where kramniks ascent has been steady and in line with other super GMs. Because Topalovs performance improves when Danailov is physically present.
2. Why do people believe in cheating just because someone saw Danailov bite his fingernails in two games
The article clearly states that Danailovs specific gestures happened prior to Topalov capturing pieces, it wasnt random, and it was repeated.
4. Why does Topalov need Danailov’s assistance only in two games and these games were against the “chess machines” Van Welly and Karjakin, but he didn’t need assistance in all the rest – including the derby games? I could call this a metamorphosis.
Topalov is naturally likely round a 2700 player, and would win a fair number of his games without assistance. The point being made is that a little assistance would be enough to make a big + to his performance. Not that he is being fed every move in every game.
7. Can someone come out with a single well-grounded statement about the method of cheating. We’ve come through wireless technology signaling, brain chip implants, and now nail biting? Isn’t this ridiculous?
Danailov uses PC analysis of the position, and takes simple visual cues from Topalov asking for example whether to capture a piece. Danailov either analyses directly as happened in San Luis, or has a 3rd party make the analysis.
In addition to the annotations reported from Mig’s forum (post of 1:09:00 AM) it should be noticed that Topalov is the *only* attacking top-player of the modern chess history to be a mediocre rapid player: Tal,Kasparov,Anand,Radjabov and even positional players like Karpov,Kramnik,Aronian and Svidler are way better than him, while it is reknown that the rapid and blitz play suits better to attacking and tactictal orienteed players: odd coincidence?!…
“it should be noticed that Topalov is the *only* attacking top-player of the modern chess history to be a mediocre rapid player”
When you believe that he is a cheater, then all the evidence just fits, doesn’t it! But that’s not the way it should work – instead of choosing evidence which proves your belief you should form your beliefs according to the evidence.
So far there’s no evidence. There are signs which might be considered strange, but to present them as incriminating evidence is simply absurd.
My wife is psychologist, and has absolutely no interest in chess. I talked to her about the toiletgate, giving substantial information. “Even when his suspicions were founded, this guy (Topalov) is too obsessed by cheating. He too much overreacts. I’m sure he’s not clean about that” she said to me. This came like a shock to me, because she’s almost never wrong about such “feelings”.
And I didn’t talk to her about existing suspicions and “amazing” rise when he got 30…
People tend to be cautious over accusations of cheating (well aside from Topalov and Danailov), and for this to be coming out in the mainstream media suggests that several credible sources have confirmed the same suspicions.
I imagine what we are seeing is just the first trickle of comment before the floodgates open on Topalov, because from what Im reading elsewhere a lot of very well respected GMs have long suspected Topalov of not playing it straight.
So far there two articles; One of them was written by an associate of Kramnik’s manager and the other one comments on it and on some vague rumors.
If this is indeed the first trickle and the GMs in question come forth and voice their concerns it will be another story.
>>And I didn’t talk to her about existing suspicions and “amazing” rise when he got 30…>>
Why do you continuously repeat this lie about the “amazing” rise on 30?
This is just not true. Check autobiography. Topalov is a top 10 player for years.
Topalovs meteoric rating rise is documented here:
http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1050
This kind of rise at Topalovs age and level is pretty much unprecidented.
“Topalov is a top 10 player for years.”
Yeah how many? 2 maybe 3?
Of course, Topalov is a very strong player. This is why he can afford him very subtle cheating tricks, I think. It’s not like a patzer who would need to use a computer for every move. Only some “advices” at critical moment are sufficient for making a naturally top-10 player to become the undisputed N.1. Very difficult to prove, of course, but this is the whole point.
For all that speak and accuse without checking the facts…
This is Topalov’s performance since 2000 from FIDE page:
Topalov, Veselin (BUL) g See Personal info See Personal info
Period Position Title Rating Games
Top 100 Players January 2007 1 g 2783 17
Top 100 Players October 2006 1 g 2813 0
Top 100 Players July 2006 1 g 2813 14
Top 100 Players April 2006 1 g 2804 27
Top 100 Players January 2006 2 g 2801 14
Top 100 Players October 2005 3 g 2782 9
Top 100 Players July 2005 3 g 2788 10
Top 100 Players April 2005 3 g 2778 25
Top 100 Players January 2005 3 g 2757 0
Top 100 Players October 2004 5 g 2757 14
Top 100 Players July 2004 7 g 2737 0
Top 100 Players April 2004 5 g 2737 25
Top 100 Players January 2004 6 g 2735 0
Top 100 Players October 2003 6 g 2735 0
Top 100 Players July 2003 5 g 2735 0
Top 100 Players April 2003 6 g 2735 13
Top 100 Players January 2003 4 g 2743 0
Top 100 Players October 2002 5 g 2743 14
Top 100 Players July 2002 5 g 2745 0
Top 100 Players April 2002 4 g 2745 9
Top 100 Players January 2002 6 g 2739 8
Top 100 Players October 2001 6 g 2733 10
Top 100 Players July 2001 10 g 2711 9
Top 100 Players April 2001 11 g 2707 13
Top 100 Players January 2001 8 g 2718 26
Top 100 Players October 2000 9 g 2707 0
Top 100 Players July 2000 9 g 2707 11
I can see gradual improvement and rise of Topalov’s rank and play quality.
It takes a very special kind of stupid to post in numerical data from a site which was referened graphically in a previous post, then to claim it proves your own point when it clearly proves the opposite.
http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1050
“Yeah how many? 2 maybe 3?”
Unfortunately the FIDE list statistics only from July 2000 on.
http://www.fide.com/ratings/top_files.phtml?id=2900084
So he is top 10 for at least 6.5 years. I can assure you it is much more than that.
But you should know that, since you have enough knowledge about chess statistics to proclaim that his rise was unprecedented.
Anonymous said…
” It takes a very special kind of stupid to post in numerical data from a site which was referened graphically in a previous post, then to claim it proves your own point when it clearly proves the opposite.”
I see that some people can feel well only by abusing and offending other people that do not share their opinion. I can live with it.
I wanted to post the numbers into this blog so that people can see it easily. Also the link was not there when I was writing my post. So shut up please.
People can make their own assessment of the “meteoric” rise 🙂 and yes – it is not 2-3 years but let say more than 7. And yes the rise has begun long before topalov hit 30. And yes some people can do this with hard work. and yes other people can’t do this just because they have reached their maximum. And yes Topalov can do even better. And yes – accept it – he will be No1 rating player for many years more.
I agree that the attitude of Topalov in Elista is far from reasonable. Let’s compare :
1. Rustam K and Moro think Topalov is a cheater. They rise SUSPICIONS.
2. Topalov thinks Kramnik is a cheater. He rises ACCUSATIONS. He gives many interviews. A BOOK is published, taking only Topalov’s point of view.
To continue with “magical” comparison, don’t you think attitude in 2 is the one of a magician who goes into panic when he suspects someone to use his own tricks ?
Topalov was 4th in the ratings in 1996:
July 1996 FIDE rating list. Top 10 players
1 Kasparov, RUS 2785
2 Karpov, RUS 2775
3 Kramnik, RUS 2765
4 Topalov, BUL 2750
5 Kamsky, USA 2745
6 Anand, IND 2735
7 Ivanchuk, UKR 2730
8 Short, ENG 2695
9-10 Adams, ENG 2685
Shirov, ESP 2685
Cleary he was incredible by the age of 20. The fact that his rating dipped considerably by the year 2000, a low point for him, and coincidentally when that chart decided to start, does not mean that his rise is unexplainable. There are millions of reasons why chess players ratings sink and soar. Changes in openings and styles for instance. One only has to look to Korchnoi to see that chessplayers can increase their playing strength past the age of 30 or 40.
Yes I see. This is life. In life the more tolerated behaviour is always the Kramnik’s one:
1. Sit silent
2. Never express your ideas and intentions publicly
3. Silently use assistance in the toilet
4. silently rely on the political machine to give you titles, defend your position as a champion and never let something threaten your title.
5. silently toss funny articles to highly reputable newspapers
6. be silent
7. be silent and have noisy compatriots that will help this plot
8. be silent and ill so that people be sorry for you
9. be silent and ill so that you go 30 times per game to the toilet without being suspicious
10. be silent and be out of many competitions because in games people could see the truth – tou are namely the average player pretending to be no1. Being unable to be No1 in rating – silently promote abusive ideas.
The original question being posed was…why do people find it believable that Topalov has cheated, and one of the answers given is that his rating rise has been pretty unprecidented for his age and level.
This alone doesnt prove he is a cheat, it simply draws attention to the possibility – a red flag if you will.
There are many other red flags, and clearly when a set of GMs come forward citing suspicious behaviour, then we all look to other indicators. This is just one of many.
Here is a list of some of the Topalov’s competitions that have earned his rating through the years:
Competition Category Points Place
Terrassa ITA 1992 10 6,5/9 1
Madrid ESP 1993 14 6,5/9 2
Las Palmas ESP 1994 17 5,5/9 3
Polanica Zdroj POL 1995 14 7,5/11 1
Elenite BUL 1995 15 6/9 1
Belgrade SCG 1995 17 6/11 4
Amsterdam NED 1996 18 6,5/9 1
Dos Hermanas ESP 1996 19 6/9 3
Madrid ESP 1996 17 6,5/9 1
Leon ESP 1996 17 3,5/6 1
Madrid ESP 1997 17 6,5/9 1
Dortmund GER 1997 18 5,5/9 3
Sarajevo BIH 2001 16 6/9 2
Dortmund GER 2001 21 6,5/10 2
Cannes FRA 2002 18 6/9 1
Leon ESP 2003 19 4/8 2
Benidorm ESP 2003 16 7/10 1
FIDE World Championship k.o 2004 19 11,5/16 3
Linares ESP 2005 20 8/12 1
Sofia BUL 2005 20 6,5/10 1
San Luis ARG FIDE World Championship 2005 20 10/14 1
Wijk an Zee NED 2006 19 9/13 1
Linares Morelia ESP MEX 2006 20 8/14 3
Mtel Masters BUL 2006 20 6,5/10 1
Why dont one consider this point: Here is the rating of the top chess software in 2000, well before the “suspicious rise” of Topalov
http://chess.vrsac.com/programi/programiE.asp
Back then, top chess programs used for training were weaker than the top players, 2642 at most.
2004-5 are maybe the years when, I suppose (I dont know for sure but this can be checked), top chess programs became stronger than the top players and Topa simply plays computers more time than other GM and maybe memorises better the moves of the chess programs he trains with.
What is so suspicious if he imitates OTB his training software better than others? Cheating cannot be excluded 100% but there is another logical explanation about these things.
As for what Kasparov said or other GM said, Im a complete outsider but it seems to me that chess world is full of jealousy and hate and top GMs have few friends among their colleagues, so it is normal that everybody speaks against everybody.
>>
As for what Kasparov said or other GM said, Im a complete outsider but it seems to me that chess world is full of jealousy and hate and top GMs have few friends among their colleagues, so it is normal that everybody speaks against everybody.>>>
Fully agree!!!
This is fairy tail that Chess is a game of dignity.
Chess on the super GM level is money, jealousy, envy, arrogance, self-confidence etc.
– 3 GMs have pubicly raised suspicions against Topalov.
– Topalov has paranoïac attitude towards possible cheaters against himself.
– He’s elo N.1 but is comparatively weak blitz player.
– Staying in top-10 for many years, he became a clear N.1 after San Luis.
– Journalists reported strange behaviour of Danailov (and Topalov) in Corus 2007.
– He plays tactical positions like a god. Past world champion made more mistakes than him. That makes Topalov the strongest player of the universe of all times.
Kramnik’s toiletgate is a single incident, limited in time and space. Maybe he cheated, maybe not. I decided Kramnik did not cheat because of the lack of obvious proofs.
I was Topalov fan. When first suspicions came, as for Kramnik, I did not believed them. He’s a fantastic player, playing wonderful games, he just can’t cheat. When other details arose, I still didn’t pay attention to them. But they came, again and again. And now I feel very bad, but I resign : yes, my hero must be a cheater ; all things put together, this is too clear, too much. Why damned people all around the world would hate a Bulgarian ? This is not possible, I’m from western Europe, why would I prefer a Russian to a Bulgarian ? This is nonsense.
At least, there is still no evidence of it. Please Topalov, I really want you to make me confident about yourself. Otherwise, you’re just a poor man, so pathetic…
Dear Anonymous
Monday, January 29, 2007 7:30:00 AM
Yes you are counting the dirty accusations that come for topalovs and they really increased since he started to dominate – but think on it – the source is one and the same. The source is there – the people who are used to being No1 chess Nation. It is a matter of world chess model that Topalov broke – this is unforgivable. People can talk but the accusations are ridiculous and without any order.
And about Kramnik – you are wrong. This is not the first time.
In the match with Kasparov – it was the same. But there Kramnik was made to visit a common toilet with Kasparov and was not able to do anything about that because he did not have such a strong protection as in Elista.
Anyone playing Topalov in future should demand that:
1) He be put through a metal detector
2) Play in a room which is designed to jam wireless and mobile signals
3) Play behind a screen preventing him seeing the audience.
and any other measures reasonable to prevent outside interference. Same goes for Kramnik and anyone else. High time FIDE stepped up to their responsibilities, this is much more their fault than anyone elses.
As to whether Topalov cheated…i think he may have got some external cues at San Luis, and most recently in Essent. Enough to make a difference. Of course I dont know, I dont actually even care all that much – Im just sick of hearing whiney Topalov fans throw their toys out of the pram because their equally whiney unsportsmanlike hero got his arse handed to him in Elitsa.
quote: “It is a matter of world chess model that Topalov broke – this is unforgivable”
No, I’m sorry, but I can’t believe this. Anand has been elo N.1. I never heard anyone complaining about Vishy, and I can hardly believe he participates to this, somewhat mystical, “world chess model”.
Well, Vishi is not from the ex-Soviet block. Once they got Topalov to play in Elista, the russians decided they could use computer against him with no problem.
Kramnik has impecable creddentials. He didn’t just arrive on the scene out of nowhere. Look at his track record his tournments the number of matches he has won, wins etc. Kasparov predicted he would be a future world chess champion.
Topalov is under a cloud. Look at the mud slinging. Some of the most brillian games that he has lost to include KArpov and Kasparov. some of the games are brilliancies and will go down in history as immortal games. they are fantastic creations and he was on the losing side. One of them would be Kasparov best games and he chose it as his top 10. Alekine said to play a brilliant game he had to rely on his oppent to create an artistic game.
Topalov deserves the benefit of the doubt.
yes but he is the only one to demand such a match and comply to all FIDE requirements for such a match including finance
“yes but he is the only one to demand such a match and comply to all FIDE requirements for such a match including finance”
and FIDE have stated their grounds for rejecting the offer. i doubt Topalov will get any legal traction on this either.
Its hard to see how a challenge can be placed to kramnik for the WC after Mexico either, as there is no certainty Kramnik will retain his title. In fairness to Topalov the whole procedure seems a mess.
I cant help but theink FIDE based their rules and clauses on the assumption Topalov would win in Elista, and in many ways Topalovs own scheming has just backfired on him badly. In any case the current situation vis mexico and the 2700 needs fixing.
“Anyone playing Topalov in future should demand that:
1) He be put through a metal detector
2) Play in a room which is designed to jam wireless and mobile signals
3) Play behind a screen preventing him seeing the audience.
and any other measures reasonable to prevent outside interference. Same goes for Kramnik and anyone else. High time FIDE stepped up to their responsibilities, this is much more their fault than anyone elses.”
Anonymous,
These were the exact conditions under which world championship games were played at Elista. We all know the outcome.
>>Having no other way to answer the questions in “Toilet War” book, Kramnik & Co decided the best defence is a good offence and to make a cheating accusation of their own.
So here we have more cheating allegations, as if no one learned anything from the last one. >>
What a hypocrite. Unsubstantiated allegations are just fine as long as it’s someone you like doing it, but when it doesn’t work for him, it’s somehow unfair. You have to have some kind of nerve to denounce your own behavior with a straight face.
Why don’t we agree that Topalov and Breutigam are both scum, and Kramnik is right?
Kramnik made no accusations, they were made by a journalist.
And yes the journalist is a “friend of Hensels” – probably a friend of a lot of other managers too, given his job.
Hardly likely to go making random accusations in a broadsheet newspaper without some justification. If Topalov is so aggrieved Id love to see him take it through the courts.
>>My wife is psychologist, ……. “Even when his suspicions were founded, this guy (Topalov) is too obsessed by cheating. He too much overreacts. I’m sure he’s not clean about that” she said to me. This came like a shock to me, because she’s almost never wrong about such “feelings”.
This has been my strong feelings since Elista. But I did not know that psychology supported the view. I strongly agree that when someone is so obsessed by accusing other people that they themselves have a problem with it. I have seen this played out so many times in my life by people that I just believe it strongly.
I am not saying Topalov cheated but I do say that his obsession raises my questions.
I want to say thanks for the word obsession. I never connected the word obsession with this effect before. I am learning.
I say there is something fishy here.
It is super easy to setup signals. It was done for a long time in card game of Bridge at the world level. finally caught them. It is done in magic tricks all the time. It is easy to get away with it.
I remember the complaints that Topalov played all his games in the same chair at San Luis with Danailov sitting there running a laptop computer analysis of the positions. Right in front of everyone.
Now Danailov has to keep changing the method to try to stay ahead of everyone. Remember they do not send all the moves. They send just when Topalov is having a problem. It is easy for him to ask questions and let Danailov know when he wants some help. Thus analysis of all moves does not prove cheating simply because they do not do it on all moves.
I have the strong suspicion that they did it on the Carlsen game also. But only the last few moves. those moves after the sac. they were prepared for the sac. then a little help comes in to make sure he responds correctly. The very last move of the game is most suspicious to me.
I remember some years ago. I had a sort of internet friend on ICC. He was a 1200 at best player. new to chess. seemed a nice guy. But he was always losing. then he got good. I played him and wow. he had great moves. I was so excited to see how easy he could beat me and with such chess combinations. It was fun. His rating had risen to about 2200. well of course he got caught using a computer. haha.
But the point I want to make is that when he used the computer against me I did not suspect. I thought he was simply making great moves. That he was a good player. I watched him in some ICC online tournaments and he was great. I never suspected.
I dont know who he was. But he was a computer programmer in Europe and I am in usa.
He said he did not like losing and he only used it to get a few wins. Then he said he found it addicting and he could not give it up. He originally was only going to use it a little bit.
Let me add one comment. I think if it is absolutely proved that he is cheating at this top level then I hope they impose a lifetime ban on chess. We need to stop other people from trying to do the same.
>>> Anonymous said…
topa obviously cheater. lifetime ban now.
>>>
How come you are sooooo sure. Have you seen any proof. No!
It is common for people to throw mud on No1s. Somehow people feel successful and big when they can punch into the face No1s. No1 humiliation is always good for raising one’s self esteem.
I too could be No1 with rybka choosing my every move, it wouldnt be such a big thing.
As someone mentioned earlier, nobody seems to think Vishy cheats, or Peter Svidler, or Van Wely, or Carlsen, or Micky Adams, or Kramnik prior to Elista for that matter.
This isnt about slinging mud at the highest rated player, its all about Topalov.
>So far there’s no evidence. There are signs which might be considered strange, but to present them as incriminating evidence is simply absurd.
>Monday, January 29, 2007 5:24:00 AM
If the evidences existed Topalov would have been deprived of any title and disqualified for years. But there are too many odd elements related to his play and his team that draw the suspicions towards one direction (indipendently on i.e. Kramnik is clean or not). He made unbeliavable streaks of wins in most of the last tournaments he played, and showed a play stuffed with blunders in the only competition where a barrier with the public was arised. The tournaments he won were played in Bulgaria (2), St.Luis (with FIDE allowing Danailov walking through the boards and Cheparinov analizing with a laptop among the public), Wiik an Zee (2- the tournament with the messiest situation of the spectators and where amateurs play in touch with the GMs).
In order to eliminate any suspicion the measures suggested @8:22:00 and after,imo are compulsory, for every future top level tournament.
hey all you specialists…
some of you forget about basics:
in a 40 move game the cheater needs help minimum in 10-15 moves;
only in beginning and end the player can play ´alone`
it is nosense to believe one single right move wins a game
permanent connection to a machine is necessary
would be obviously dealing, isnt it
well, only in one situation it was so obvious
you know I am talking about that town in the russian dessert
for all chess fans: open your eyes
I believe that both players using a common toilet is NOT a good idea. It would be too easy for one player to “plant” evidence against the other player.
The bathroom becomes a much more “safe” place to visit when no one else can enter the room. The we can hold that person responsible for what happens in that room.
If both players enter the same room and “evidence” is found how can we prove which of the 2 players used the evidence.
Separate rooms is better.
“it is ridiculous to say that he is using rybka to play all his moves.”
Nobody is saying that. Except You.
It has been suggested that he recieves visual cues in critical situations which assist him in decision making.
>>
Nobody is saying that. Except You.
>>
look up before you offend – fellow.
>> Anonymous said…
I too could be No1 with rybka choosing my every move, it wouldnt be such a big thing.>>
once again – all offenders do not have common understanding of the cheating methodology but they are so convinced and they all do want to see blood (topalov’s).
“look up before you offend – fellow.”
Yes i made both posts. My point being that a number one standing means nothing if it is based on computer assistance hence
“I too could be No1 with rybka choosing my every move, it wouldnt be such a big thing.”
Which is not the same as saying that Topalov uses Rybka for every move.
>>>”I too could be No1 with rybka choosing my every move, it wouldnt be such a big thing.”
Which is not the same as saying that Topalov uses Rybka for every move.>>>
It could be that you even don’t mean that topalov cheats?
For sure, i have no idea if the guy cheats in all honesty. I read the articles and comments, look over the performances and followed a few live over the internet.
Based solely on that, my intuition says that I think theres a chance he is cheating, but of course I dont know. Only Topalov and Danailov know for certain.
There do seem to be enough reasons for suspicion for FIDE to get its act together and impose sensible measures to prevent this kind of scandal repeating itself, and if that is done then Topalovs performance at the board will tell us in short order what the truth is.
If you look for a second at the big picture, and all of it, and not just the parts that suit you, then you will find that in all likelyhood neither cheated.
Topalovs ranking is based on many many games. All concrete cheating allegations are very punctual. What is the mechanism through which he cheated at dozens of games in wildly varying circumstances
over the last years?
If he cheated in San Luis why did he play at so many other tournaments afterwards?
And you know what? The proof is right there before your eyes, look at the games! Look at the way they are played! Topalov is brilliant at creating winning positions and then blundering them away with imprecise play. That doesn’t exactly reek of computers.
I somewhat doubt that a 2700+ player could gain much by getting this kind of signals from a computer anyways.
Furthermore it makes psychological variations in his strength much more believable. Imagine if he had been calm and concentrated against Svidler. Immidiately he finishes the tournament a point up from everyone else.
Now due to paranoia etc he was apparently feeling attacked in Elista.
What are all these allegations then? A psychological battle parallel to the battle on the board.
FIDE is the entity which truly blew it here. Obviously it is completely incapable of organizing these events to minimize the destructive drama going on off the board them and is frequently open to manipulations from one side or the other (i.e. Topalovs team).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht_yJBU3C30
this may answer something on the “meteoric” rise 😉
“However, there is believed to be as yet unpublished video footage of Danailov which has been shown to the all-time No1 Garry Kasparov, who thought that there were questions to answer.”
With all my respect to Gary Kasparov as the chess monster for all times.
If this is true that he is taking part in this maybe it is good to remind something:
Gary Kasparov is a man after all and no human feelings are odd to him. Let me remind that the chess hero for all times was defeated by Topalov in his last official chess game. This may be a hard remembrance to get over 🙂
He didn’t lose very often and he lost this so much important game for him – the historical last official game. now it would be so nice if Topalov have cheated then.