1. Rxe7 Rxe7 2. Ba5! Qxa5 (2…. Qd7 3. Nxe7+ Qxe7 4.Bxd8 also wins the exchange, same as the line given) 3. Nxe7+ Kf8 or Kh8 4. Nxc6 winning the exchange and a pawn.
One of those situations where the asking of the question itself sort of suggests the first move. Let’s give up the rook at e7 first:
1. Re7 Re7 (what else?) 2. Ba5
And black has two major pieces en prise. I don’t see how he avoids losing a piece or an exchange over all. If he plays 2. …Re1, white just captures at e1 with the bishop netting a piece. On 2. …Qd7, white just takes at e7 with check followed by Bxd8 winning the exchange. Finally, the hopping knight foils the capture at a5, too:
2. …..Qa5 3. Ne7 Kh8 (or Kf8) 4. Nc6 forking the remaining two black major pieces netting an exchange.
Exploring the Nxg7 idea, it seems to work, and, if the black king tries to take the bishop at h6, the end comes quickly: [FEN “3rr1k1/p1q1bppp/2p2n2/5N2/3p4/5Q1P/PP1B1PP1/R3R1K1 w – – 0 0”]
If, instead, the black king declines to take the bishop, white can chase him, eventually, into a corner: 3… Kg6 4. Bf4 Qd7? 5. Qg3+ Kf5 6. Qg5+ Ke4 7. f3+ Kd3 8. Rd1+ Kc4 9. b3+ Kb4 10. Bd2+ Ka3 11. Qa5+ Kb2 12. Bc1+ Kb1 13. Qd2 Re1+ 14. Rxe1 Qxh3 15. Qb2#
Black has a decent defense by 4… Qa5 instead of Qd7: 4… Qa5 5. Qg3+ Ng4 6. Qxg4+ Kf6 7. Qh4+ Ke6 8. Bg5 Rdd7 9. Bxe7 Rxe7 10. Qxd4 Rd7 11. Qe4+ Qe5 12. Qxc6+ Ke7 13. Qc2 Rb7 {And the situation is pretty well evened up. White has a two pawn advantage that is difficult to exploit. Black has a slightly better position.}
I looked at this for a while this morning, and I don’t find a stronger move for white, but it might be that I am just missing something. In any case, this was also your suggestion, so let’s continue:
4. …..Qd7
Here is where I start to disagree with your analysis. Of your two suggestions, I think Qd7 is the strong move, and Qa5 the weak one, and probably losing, however, I will return to Qa5 at the end. Let’s continue along the line above:
5. Qg3
Hard to think of any other move for white here that doesn’t just allow black to consolidate his rook edge. Continuing:
5. …..Ng4!
The key defense, and probably the only defense in this position (and surprising that you find it on the Qa5 line where it doesn’t hold). It is easy to forget (I do it myself all the time) that white is down a rook at the moment, so black can afford to give up a piece in defense if necessary. The king now has time to escape the net if white takes at g4 with the pawn, and, also, the black still guards g5 to prevent the skewer in some of the lines. I can see two plausible continuations for white, but in both he seems to not have compensation for the material sacrificed. If white takes at g4 with the queen at move 6, black just exchanges queens to relieve the pressure. Those two plausible lines are 6.hg4 and 6.Qh4:
6. hg4 Re6 (Kg7 ok too) 7. Qh4
What else can white do to keep up the attack? Continuing:
7. …..Kg7! 8. Qg5 Rg6 and black should win this.
Or, back at move 6, white can play Qh4 immediately, but time is still on black’s side in this line:
6. Qh4 Kg7! 7. Qg5
Or, if hg4, black transposes to the previous line with Re6. Also, Bg5 should be well met with f6 which will keep white from even winning the knight on net, I think. Continuing:
7. …..Kf8 8. hg4
Now or never. Continuing:
8. …..Re6 and I don’t see any compensation for the exchange on white’s behalf.
Finally, back at move 4 for black, I don’t see how Qa5 is not worse for black than Qd7:
4. …..Qa5?? 5. Qg3! Ng4
This defense now no longer works since white can capture at g4 with the queen without having to allow the exchange of queens as in the previous line
6. Qg4! Kf6
And, here is where I find black’s hopes dashed in this line:
7. Bg3
With the idea of Bh4 which should win one of the rooks:
7. …..Re5 (alternatives later) 8. Bh4! Rg5 9. f4! and white’s piece advantage should be decisive. Or, at move 7:
7. …..Rd5 8. Bh4 Rg5 (what else?) 9. f4 should win again. Or, more intesting in my opinion at move 7:
7. …..Re1!? (unsure of move) 8. Re1 Qe1 9. Kh2 Qe1 (unsure here, too) 10.Bh4 Ke5 11.Qg5 Ke4 12.Qd8 still leaves white up a piece and he should win this.
In any case, you get props for thinking out of the box on this one. I never even considered the possibility of Ng7 being worth looking at, which is was wrong of me.
Apologies, Yancey, for not replying sooner. Didn’t see your post until today.
I agree with your critique of my second line. It was fragile and falls apart if black moves 5… Ng4! Fritz 13 also chooses the same reply. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
However, I still think 4… Qa5 is a pretty good defense for black, though black does give up the knight at g4.
For example, if white plays 7… Bg5 (which you didn’t suggest), then black can reply the rather obvious Qxg5, after which the white queen can’t accomplish much. Thereafter, black’s queen can protect the king from attack, inviting an exchange of queens, which would not be good for white. Black then can parlay his rook advantage and passed pawn for a fairly easy win.
On the other hand, if white plays 7. Bg3! as you suggested, then black has not got a lot of ways to stop Bh4. 7… Re1+ might be the best reply. It could play out something like this: 7. Bg3! Re1+ 8. Kh2 Ke7 9. Bh4+ f6 10. Rxe1+ Qxe1 11. Qg7+ Ke8 12. Bxf6 Rc8 13. Qg4 Kf7 14. Qxc8 Kxf6 15. Qxc6+ Ke7 16. Qc5+ Ke6 17. Qxd4 And now white has only a pawn advantage, though black with his king out in the open will find it difficult to keep his remaining pawns.
A lot of work for a meager advantage, somehow I felt the position promised more, but maybe I’m missing something…
1- Rxe7 ; Rxe7
2- Ba5 ; Qxa5 (Qc8 3- Bxd8; Qxd8 brings about a similar result)
3- Nxe7+; Kf8
4- Nxc6 ; Qc7
5- Nxd8 ; Qxd8
White is up the exchange and should edge out his/her opponent in the ensuing endgame.
RxB, RxR
Nxg7, Kxg7
Bh6+ KxB
QxN+
White must win a piece with temporary Q sack on second move:
1. Rxe7 Rxe7
2. Qxc6! Qxc6
3. Nxe7+ Kf8/Kh8
4. Nxc6
up with bishop.
2. … Rc8
3. Nxe7+ Kf8/Kh8 (Qxe7 Qxc8 is up with rook)
4. Qxc7 Rxc7
5. Nf5
up with bishop.
2. … Qe5
3. Re1 Qb8
4. Rxe7
up with bishop.
This is way too hard.
1. Rxe7 Rxe7
2. Ba5! Qxa5 (2…. Qd7 3. Nxe7+ Qxe7 4.Bxd8 also wins the exchange, same as the line given)
3. Nxe7+ Kf8 or Kh8
4. Nxc6 winning the exchange and a pawn.
One of those situations where the asking of the question itself sort of suggests the first move. Let’s give up the rook at e7 first:
1. Re7 Re7 (what else?)
2. Ba5
And black has two major pieces en prise. I don’t see how he avoids losing a piece or an exchange over all. If he plays 2. …Re1, white just captures at e1 with the bishop netting a piece. On 2. …Qd7, white just takes at e7 with check followed by Bxd8 winning the exchange. Finally, the hopping knight foils the capture at a5, too:
2. …..Qa5
3. Ne7 Kh8 (or Kf8)
4. Nc6 forking the remaining two black major pieces netting an exchange.
How about queen takes pawn threatening fork?
Queen takes pawn.
1) Txe7 Txe7
2) Ba5 Da5
3) Nxe7+ K moves
4) Nxc6 Q moves
5) Nxd8 and white wins.
pht:
1. Re7 Re7
2. Qc6? Red7 should hold for black, at the very least.
Exploring the Nxg7 idea, it seems to work, and, if the black king tries to take the bishop at h6, the end comes quickly:
[FEN “3rr1k1/p1q1bppp/2p2n2/5N2/3p4/5Q1P/PP1B1PP1/R3R1K1 w – – 0 0”]
1. Rxe7 Rxe7
2. Nxg7 Kxg7
3. Bh6+ Kxh6
4. Qxf6+ Kh5
5. g4#
If, instead, the black king declines to take the bishop, white can chase him, eventually, into a corner:
3… Kg6
4. Bf4 Qd7?
5. Qg3+ Kf5
6. Qg5+ Ke4
7. f3+ Kd3
8. Rd1+ Kc4
9. b3+ Kb4
10. Bd2+ Ka3
11. Qa5+ Kb2
12. Bc1+ Kb1
13. Qd2 Re1+
14. Rxe1 Qxh3
15. Qb2#
Black has a decent defense by 4… Qa5 instead of Qd7:
4… Qa5
5. Qg3+ Ng4
6. Qxg4+ Kf6
7. Qh4+ Ke6
8. Bg5 Rdd7
9. Bxe7 Rxe7
10. Qxd4 Rd7
11. Qe4+ Qe5
12. Qxc6+ Ke7
13. Qc2 Rb7 {And the situation is pretty well evened up. White has a two pawn advantage that is difficult to exploit. Black has a slightly better position.}
So it seems 2. Ba5 is the correct move. 2. Qxc6 fails to a rook move.
Craig Johanssen,
Interesting line, but I think black goes wrong at move 5 in the second line where black has declined to capture at h6:
1. Re7 Re7
2. Ng7? Kg7
3. Bh6 Kg6! (I agree Kh6 allow #)
4. Bf4
I looked at this for a while this morning, and I don’t find a stronger move for white, but it might be that I am just missing something. In any case, this was also your suggestion, so let’s continue:
4. …..Qd7
Here is where I start to disagree with your analysis. Of your two suggestions, I think Qd7 is the strong move, and Qa5 the weak one, and probably losing, however, I will return to Qa5 at the end. Let’s continue along the line above:
5. Qg3
Hard to think of any other move for white here that doesn’t just allow black to consolidate his rook edge. Continuing:
5. …..Ng4!
The key defense, and probably the only defense in this position (and surprising that you find it on the Qa5 line where it doesn’t hold). It is easy to forget (I do it myself all the time) that white is down a rook at the moment, so black can afford to give up a piece in defense if necessary. The king now has time to escape the net if white takes at g4 with the pawn, and, also, the black still guards g5 to prevent the skewer in some of the lines. I can see two plausible continuations for white, but in both he seems to not have compensation for the material sacrificed. If white takes at g4 with the queen at move 6, black just exchanges queens to relieve the pressure. Those two plausible lines are 6.hg4 and 6.Qh4:
6. hg4 Re6 (Kg7 ok too)
7. Qh4
What else can white do to keep up the attack? Continuing:
7. …..Kg7!
8. Qg5 Rg6 and black should win this.
Or, back at move 6, white can play Qh4 immediately, but time is still on black’s side in this line:
6. Qh4 Kg7!
7. Qg5
Or, if hg4, black transposes to the previous line with Re6. Also, Bg5 should be well met with f6 which will keep white from even winning the knight on net, I think. Continuing:
7. …..Kf8
8. hg4
Now or never. Continuing:
8. …..Re6 and I don’t see any compensation for the exchange on white’s behalf.
Finally, back at move 4 for black, I don’t see how Qa5 is not worse for black than Qd7:
4. …..Qa5??
5. Qg3! Ng4
This defense now no longer works since white can capture at g4 with the queen without having to allow the exchange of queens as in the previous line
6. Qg4! Kf6
And, here is where I find black’s hopes dashed in this line:
7. Bg3
With the idea of Bh4 which should win one of the rooks:
7. …..Re5 (alternatives later)
8. Bh4! Rg5
9. f4! and white’s piece advantage should be decisive. Or, at move 7:
7. …..Rd5
8. Bh4 Rg5 (what else?)
9. f4 should win again. Or, more intesting in my opinion at move 7:
7. …..Re1!? (unsure of move)
8. Re1 Qe1
9. Kh2 Qe1 (unsure here, too)
10.Bh4 Ke5
11.Qg5 Ke4
12.Qd8 still leaves white up a piece and he should win this.
In any case, you get props for thinking out of the box on this one. I never even considered the possibility of Ng7 being worth looking at, which is was wrong of me.
Apologies, Yancey, for not replying sooner. Didn’t see your post until today.
I agree with your critique of my second line. It was fragile and falls apart if black moves 5… Ng4! Fritz 13 also chooses the same reply. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
However, I still think 4… Qa5 is a pretty good defense for black, though black does give up the knight at g4.
For example, if white plays 7… Bg5 (which you didn’t suggest), then black can reply the rather obvious Qxg5, after which the white queen can’t accomplish much. Thereafter, black’s queen can protect the king from attack, inviting an exchange of queens, which would not be good for white. Black then can parlay his rook advantage and passed pawn for a fairly easy win.
On the other hand, if white plays 7. Bg3! as you suggested, then black has not got a lot of ways to stop Bh4. 7… Re1+ might be the best reply. It could play out something like this:
7. Bg3! Re1+
8. Kh2 Ke7
9. Bh4+ f6
10. Rxe1+ Qxe1
11. Qg7+ Ke8
12. Bxf6 Rc8
13. Qg4 Kf7
14. Qxc8 Kxf6
15. Qxc6+ Ke7
16. Qc5+ Ke6
17. Qxd4
And now white has only a pawn advantage, though black with his king out in the open will find it difficult to keep his remaining pawns.