Again, I am NOT taking any side. I think all parties contributed to this mess (some more than others).
As I said countless times before, I personally learn a lot from Kramnik’s games. I think he has an incredible understanding of chess and when he is on his game, he is almost impossible to beat. I also admire Topalov’s style of chess. I cannot play like him and very few can. He may not have the same chess understanding as Kramnik but he has a magnificent feel for attacking chess and his fighting spirit is second to none.
These two players are the best in the game. Topalov is a premier attacker and Kramnik is the Minister of Defense. I do not think anyone should insult either of these players.
I believe that Topalov was within his rights to file a protest. I do NOT agree with the tone and language of the letter by his manager Silvio Danailov. I think the tone and the language of the letter was out of line. But the bottom line is he has the right to file a protest if he feels something is unfair or wrong.
I also believe that Kramnik was within his rights to fight the protest and lodged his own protest. He was within his rights to defend himself and to state what he thought was unfair. Do I agree with everything in the letter from his manager Carsten Hensel or the decision to forfeit the game? No, but that is another story.
I do strongly believe that both sides are guilty of purposely playing mind games with each other. I do believe that both sides went too far. This war of words went all the way back to when Topalov won San Luis. There is no love lost between these two managers. I do believe that both sides should stop this psychological warfare and get back to the board and play chess.
I believe that FIDE did make a mistake. The reason is they should have anticipated the potential problems. Am I accusing the Appeals Committee of purposely making a decision to favor one player or the other? NO. But it would have been better and wiser to appoint 3 people who are NOT directly affiliated with FIDE on the Appeals Committee. This way no one can say that the Appeals Committee is being unfair.
Many players do not trust FIDE no matter if they are working hard to change things for the better or not. Many people do not give credibility to the ACP no matter what they try to achieve. This is why I stated numerous times for a need of a neutral Chess Commissioner, someone with NO political history or agenda, someone who is well respected by most organizers, players and head of federations.
Other sports such as the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. do have Commissioners. These Commissioners are liaisons between the owners and players. Why not chess? The Chess Commissioner can be a liaison between FIDE, ACP and all chess players.
The only way to solve the problems now is for both players to compromise. Blaming either player alone is unfair and will not solve any problem. Without cooperation by both sides, the match is over. The future of this match is in their hands and all parties are to blame for this embarrassment.
Agree 100% with you, Susan.
There’s absolutely no reason for Kramnik to compromise. Play on with the mutually agreed upon playing conditions, or leave the idiots. It is below anybody’s dignity to be treated like a circus monkey in a freak reality show. Sharing toilet with such a psychopath and have it videotaped and broadcast to the entire world???………
There are things more important to uphold than the continuation of a freak show. Like dignity and personal integrity. It just seems like Susan does not grant Kramnik that right.
The FIDE appeals committee is the main culprit here. They took an appeal without any merit seriousle, even though it was obviously just a provocation by Danailov. They made a decision without hearing Kramnik’s side. And their ruling goes against the pre-arranged match conditions. Kirsan should take care of them the way he deals with dissidents and journalists in his country.
The match is lost. Chess Unification has failed again…
Your idea for a neutral commisioner is very good. Yasser Seirawan should be the commisioner!
I do think Yasser Seirawan would be a great Commissioner. And, although I don’t agree 100% with him, I think his opinion is the most likely to gain a compromise.
I said before that Kramnik should behave like the bigger person and sit at the board in game 5 and destroy Topalov, with the bathroom door closed. Instead he decided not to play, thus casting doubts on whether Topalov’s complaints were actually based on something after all.
By the same toke, I say now that Topalov should behave like the bigger person and accept to give up the point of game number 5 and play it again, and destroy Kramnik, to show that he is there for a fair battle of chess and deserves to be the champion.
The real official results of the World Chess Championship:
2 wins for Kramnik
2 draws
The tournament is officially over at 4 games. Kramnik is the new World Champion.
Susan Polgar for FIDE President! It is once again proven that common sense is not so common afterall with Susan’s commentary being the exception. For pure compromise, Yasser’s open letter gets the players back to the table. What is really saddening and maddening is how far back this puts the progress of the Royal Game. I believe Susan’s tireless efforts to promote chess are negated by this foolishness. It is a shame. Why can’t we all just get along? Give Peace A Chance! Namaste Fellow Chess Enthusiasts…
Chess will never allow for a commissioner because there isn’t really anything at stake for the rest of the world like there is in basketball, baseball or football. Chess is not a revenue generating sport and hence will not get the same treatment as other sports.
I would not place Seirawan as a commissioner or a negotiator because his act is too clean. He is either feeding his ego like many other top players or he has other ulterior motives. He hasn’t been placed in a situation to become corrupted yet but when he does he would fold like the rest of them.
The contract for the WCC was written very poorly. There are conflicting statements within the contract that both allows and disallows what is going on.
Topalov’s team is pulling some silly stunts. So is Kramnik’s team. This is tit for tat with nothing being resolved.
The WCC should be cancelled – it should be rescheduled in a neutral site – not Elista, not Russia, not Bulgaria. If Kirsan truly wants this to happen escrow the money into a Swiss Account with power of attorney to a group of 2 International Organizers and 2 International Arbiters in order to execute the WCC properly. I would even include someone from the IOC as well in this group.
Have the tournament in France, Germany, Italy, Iceland, etc. – or better yet in the US – completely out of the sphere of influence of FIDE. But have it somewhere that is neutral.
Have the ACP, Seirawan, Nunn, and some other members on the appeals committee instead of a deputy president that cheats on his wife with the former women’s world champion and other individuals with no scruples.
But FIDE will not do this. FIDE will not allow for someone else to run the show. It’s not because they want to see Kramnik lose or Topalov to lose – FIDE could care less who the world champion is. They don’t want to give up control and saying they are the one’s calling the shots. It’s an ego trip from all sides.
I feel very sorry for things having taken those direction. In my opinion, the organization committee of this reunificaion match should have thought long ago of all possible problems with those resting rooms and “bathroom” stuff. If so, no such complications would have taken place. If Mr. Kramnik has some health problems which suggest frequent visits to the bathroom, i think it’s better he thought of some kind of treatment before participating in the match! It’s an official chess match between great players, it’s not watching Fiedel Castro playing a friendly game with Diego Maradona for example !!! Both having serious problems with health.
Also, toilet is a place where cameras ,of course, shouldn’t be allowed, this is not Big Brother after all! But, once again, i suggest Mr. Kramnik taking a rest for some weeks in order to treat his medical problems, and if not – he just should accept every condition that leaves no place for even the most tiny part of cheat doubt. 50 times entering the bathroom – this is a chess match, not a hospital for severe kidney injuries after all, isn’t it !?
Interesting comments by John Nunn on Chessbase, here.
To the last poster. I am curious, which former women world champion?
I have a deep respect for John Nunn as a player and as a writer that he is. But I take issue with this of his comments: he labels the locking of the bathroom as a psyc move against Kramnik, but he sees nothing wrong with Kramnik’s frequent visits to the unsurveilled area and does not consider them to be psyc moves against Topalov. That sounds biased. But yet again, I agree with most of what he says. I agree more with Seirawan, and even more with Suz.
Great comments from an actual lawyer here over at Patrick’s Chessforblood blog.
He makes a very good case that Kramnik, from a legal standpoint, has no case. I continue to provide insipid commentary here.
roper said: “…he sees nothing wrong with Kramnik’s frequent visits to the unsurveilled area and does not consider them to be psyc moves against Topalov. That sounds biased.”
How could they be psyc moves? For all Kramnik knew, the Topalov team didn’t see him as he walked around. The video of his rest room should not have been made available to Danailov.
Your commentary is balanced and sensible, Susan. I hope that Topalov, Kramnik, and others in Elista will listen to it!
It would would be good if we had a wise, neutral, and universally respected commissioner who could resolve disputes like this, but how would such a person be chosen? I fear that the process would inevitably become political (and we’ve seen the disastrous results that has had in the selection of FIDE presidents). The commissioners of the North American sports leagues may not be the best analogy, because they are hired by the team owners, and thus are not neutral in disputes between the owners and the players.
For the commenter who said that Kramnik should take a few weeks off to treat his medical condition:
His condition is chronic and incurable.
Topalov:”Russia is F.I.D.E. teritory”.
But isn’t Bulgaria Turk-Tatar-Mongolian(and who nows which it is but definitly not human)teritory?
“Vulgaris” in latin(byzantian)language means (funny but true)something vulgaric.The Byzantians(East Rome Empire)gived them teritorial name Vulgaria because the people there was mostly Turko-Mongol-Tatarian and completly war-criminaly-oriented and with no any civilisation caracteristic.When they come to the balcans they started to use the Slavic languages but they still haved some turko-mongolian names and “religions”.So that is why they wasn’t part of former Yugo-Slav federation(in Slavic languages Yugo means South)
Today they are the same.The Bulgarians today in their schools learn history which says that Bulagaria is start(mother)of 20 big imperias in history and 55 oficial U.N. countries.
Great Britain(England)reacted to E.U. for the decision Bulgaria to became part of E.U..Thay say that if the borders are opened for Bulgarians and their mafia and the criminal oriented people(which is betwin 20% and 40%)they will transform London in a Palermo-Sofia(in Sofia-Bulgaria it is posible policeman to steal your car or to stop you sing and dance for you and waiting to pay him something and it was often before 2-3 years,now it is the same but more sofisticated criminal!!!!!)
So for me it is completly clear what is hapening at WCC.Mongolian tactics from Mongolians so what is there strange something.
Obviously, what I meant as psyc moves of Kramnik over Topalov were not how many steps he took inside the bathroom, which for all effects is invisible, but the long time he spends off the board.
The appeal committee is wrong:
1) How could they make such a decision without listening to the other side? Even the TD of our scholastic K-1 section asks the other player about a complaint!
2) How could they not keep two toilets while making it cheat-proof? For example, install a camera and a voice recorder in each bathroom, so that any action and sound in the room will be recorded and only the arbiters can review the recording immediately before signing each game off.
The solutions:
1) Kirsan overrules the Appeal Committee’s decision.
2) Topalov and Kramnik agree on a draw to game 5 and play game six tomorrow.
Possible outcomes:
1) Kirsan standeds by his Appeal Committee. He has thrown the balls to Kramnik – you share one toilette; and to Topalov – you give back the free point.
2) Kramnik will not accept one toilette and a full point forfeit, but will withdraw his smoking guns, namely, his demands of replacing the appeal committee and an apology from Topalov team.
3) Topalov will not give up the free full point but agree to two secured bathroom.
Conclusion:
The bathroom problem can be solved, but it may be he end of the Unification Match unless Kramnik and Topalov agree to a game 5 draw.
UtahFan
Topalov has a right to protest if he wants, but FIDE has no right to change the conditions of the match without both player’s approval. Kramnik has done nothing wrong. He may have played a bit inaccurately by throwing a fit and skipping a game instead of just laughing at the absurdity of it all.
Not seeing anything useful in the post so brutally offending Bulgaria and Bulgarians! How could that guy know what is being writen in history books in Bulgaria, unless he has read one !? And that means that he knows bulgarian, and if this is the case: batence, ne se ebavai taka, shtoto ideq si nemash kvi gi rusish! Nemame nishto obshto s tyrcite, govedo prosto! Nito puk ima i procent ot onova visokomerie, za koeto govorish!!!
And to add: in my opinion russian mafia is much more dangerous and brutal than the bulgarian one! i don’t see what you mean with insulting all bulgarians, me included!!
I also want to say that bulgarians do not have anything in common with turks as ethnical background and those words could be said only by an extremely simple, stupid and brain-damaged person! But what could one expect from “clever” people from the U.K. or all of Western Europe for example, where your high scholl math skills can be obtained a little after kindergarten in Bulgaria (and Russia, of course), not to speak of history knowledge and skills…
Personally, i’m not dying at all to visit or live in th E.U., i’m not taking my feet to those places, even if i’m dying!!! If people like you are going to be the environment, that will surround me…
Now for the match: really i think that playing the games in Russia is a kind of advantage for Kramnik – Russia is neither a nationality-meant nor chess-deferation-meant neutral teritory, so playing the games there is the first stupid thing in this reunification match.
And for the chronical and incurable problems of Mr. Kramink : i’m sorry, didn’t know :(.
But then it probably not a bad idea for him to consider retirement from professional chess playing, isn’t it ?
Guys, no need to take this personally, or make it a nationallistic or ethnic thing, please. Let’s stay cool.
In this case I’m afraid I can’t agree with you Susan. I really can’t see what Kramnik has done wrong, while the facts are that Topalov from the beginning of the match deliberately has been insulting and provoking his adversary. That’s not a matter of taking sides, it’s simply judging from the facts.
The case for suspicion:
That Kramnik spent eighty two minutes in front of a bathroom door without entering and without having to go to another restroom proves that his “need” to go 50 times per game to the bathroom is false. Furthermore, he is suspected of using a small chess set to make moves physically while in the bathroom (the only place sans cameras) which gives the palyer a minimum of 300 Elo points of advantage. This is serious since neither player is searched for non-electronic devices. It also sheds a dark light on the Kasparov vs Kramnik match, since Kasparov complained (just like Topalov) that Kramnik made too many trips to the bathroom!
Let me repeat: Kramnik explanation of his frequent bathroom visits is completely insatisfactory. He claims that he uses it to “walk”. Is the bathroom so big that he can walk inside it for 1 to 2 minutes at a time? (he claims he uses it as an “extension” to the restroom yet he “disapears” inside for such lenghts of time many times, some obviously for actually relieving himself but many others for “walking”). His “need” to go to the restroom so frequently (and his “need” to walk so much because of his disease) was proven false by his “sit in” in front of the restroom for 82 minutes (60 minutes till the forfeit and 22 minutes before that until they starte the clock), he did not need to go a SINGLE time to the bathroom in that time span, nor he needed to walk “so much” during it. There are only two reasonable explanations for such behaviour: either Kramnik has some sort of psychiatric disorder that forces him to be in the restroom so frequently (his claimed inordinate “thirst” was also proven false in this 82 minute interval) or that he is “somehow” cheating. Since electronics are carefully inspected for (and there is even interference) we can rule out radio intervention and chess computers (except if he uses a sophisticated water pipe morse code like one source claims) so the only other way for him to cheat is by using said portable chess set.
ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE, SEALING THE TOILET, ETC WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE KRAMNIK HIDES THE CHESS SET IN HIS CLOTHES, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE ONE PROPOSED BY SEIRAWAN, THAT THERE IS SOMEONE PRESENT IN THE BATHROOM.
You say Kramnik is also guilty. But from your account, it only seems that he is guilty of defending himself.
You should retract your judgement. Or actually find something concrete he has done wrong.
Return of the gloomy anonymous hoawmaker with his chess set delirium…
Hi Susan
You missed one of the most crucial points in that it is disgraceful that Topalov and his team were given the right to scrutinise Kramniks behaviour whilst in his private rest room. If Kramnik is suffering physically for any reason, and he can mask this at the board, then good for him. Topalov had no right to be made aware of Kramniks disposition from this private area. It’s humiliating for Kramnik.
I really hope this can be resolved and the match can go on.
Susan, sometimes you have to take sides.
Kramnik: goes to restroom / bathroom frequently.
Topalov: accuses Kramnik of cheating without offering any evidence.
Hmmm, should I take sides here?
Susan, is this really a hard choice?
1) u guys write too much
2) the word spychological somewhere in this mess of blogs is special
3)with no evidence of any cheating,nothing should have been done, except for possibly raising the terror level a notch, or having the organizers watch what’s going on with a little more focus
Kramnik started the mind games. He knew full well what the effect of hi hiding in the toilet most of the time would be. Susan is right to blame both of them (but I think Kramnik is more to blame).
A much fairer comment from a GM: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3382
Truth of the whole situation: is it the players? Reveiling comment: “this goes back……there is no love loss between these two managers”. Our Championship is being played out by the egos of two managers. The players have put themselves up as pawns. Get rid of the managers and see how the match plays out. Maybe on the board?
We, including Susan, should know better that both Kramnik and Topalov were not at fault by playing mind games with each other away from the board. It is one of the fun parts of the game. It’s the faults of the appeal committee and their decisions, which may actually plummet the match into a termination, a result unintended by both players when they played their psych games.
>”The only way to solve the problems now is for both players to compromise.”
Unfortunately, I don’t think there is any compromise possible at this point. Topalov will not aggree to a replay of game 5, and Kramnik will not agree to accept the forfeit. This match was over the moment they signed the match slip for game 5.
“Many players do not trust FIDE no matter if they are working hard to change things for the better or not. Many people do not give credibility to the ACP no matter what they try to achieve.”
Who is “FIDE”? Who is “ACP”?
LAST RESORT: PLAY NOW, DECIDE LATER
If the players can not agree to the current score, 3-1 or 3-2, then the following should take place:
Continue with the rest of the match. That is, tomorrow’s game should be game 6 with Topalov as white. In the meantime, FIDE should work with the players’ managers to appoint a mutually agreed upon outside arbiter. Over the next few days, the players’ managers can present their case to the arbiter. The players will agree to abide by the decision of the arbiter. The arbiter will announce his decision AFTER all other games (except tie-break games) are played, and only if his decision matters.
If, excluding the result of game 5, Kramnik finishes at least 1.5 points ahead of Topalov, then Kramnik is declared the Unified World Chess Champion. If, excluding the result of game 5, Topalov is at least 1.5 points ahead of Kramnik, then Topalov is declared the Unified World Chess Champion. If, excluding game 5, the players score is seperated by less than 1.5 points, then, based on the arguments presented by the players’ managers, the arbiter will determine whether Game 5 should be replayed or if the full point should be awarded to Topalov. If the score is tied after the outcome of game 5, whether it was replayed or awarded by the arbiter to Topalov, then the players will proceed with the tie-breakers as planned.
Obviously the main attraction of this plan is that there is a significant probability that the outcome of the match will not depend on the outcome of game 5, and so the arbiter’s decision will not matter anyways.
The main detraction of this plan is the anti climactic possibility of having the world chess championship decided by an arbiter’s decision.
Unfortunately, given the current situation, I believe this plan is the best we can hope for. As for the bathroom issue, I believe that this issue is secondary and that they will be able to figure out a solution on their own.
I wish Kramnik had filed a request to postpone game 5 yesterday. Did he…?
Or the appeals committee had postpone game 5 yesterday because of the situation. Did they…?
Or Topalov showed some class and offered the postponement. Would he…? No, he would not. Look at his big smile while enjoying at his signed 0-1 score sheet yesterday from the link below! I wonder if he is asking himself: “Is this true? 0-1! Haha…”
http://www.chessbase.de/nachrichten.asp?newsid=5826
The main problem is indeed the unprofessional organisation of this event. The appeals committee broke at least two rules/contract conditions, which is the real scandal here. They should put qualified people into such a committee, who can at least read and understand contracts.
What Topalov is concerned, it is of course his right to complain. But the timing and circumstances make his complaint not very credible. On http://www.chessbase.de there is a picture of “Topalov inspecting the new toilets.” If you want to be a true honourable World Champion, you can not inspect toilets. Have a Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine or Spassky, Tal or Karpov ever inspected their opponents’ toilet? It is a shame.
To All OTB chess tournament players:
Since world champion contender (or the actual world champion?) Vladimir Kramnik was declared innocent of all wrong doing in his match against Topalov a unique opportunity has arisen: to cheat with impunity. The next time you play in a tournament simply use an inexpensive pocket chess board to study all the moves you want to make in the actual game while hidding in the bathroom. Leave the board before making any critical move and “calculate” with the aid of the chess set at your leisure. We guarantee a “gain” of hudreds of ELO points with this simple expedient. FIDE and USCF players will benefit greatly from this legal precedent. If you are caught or accused of suspicious behaviour just say “I am using Kramnik’s cheat technique and it has been endorsed by FIDE”.
Enjoy.
I will be honest I’m kind of a Kramnik Fan. I believe he is the true world champion at the moment. It is too bad the match has gotten to this point. I hope they figure out a way to continue it.
My largest concern here is a MATCH, should decide who is world champion. Not some tournament. If the current world champion dies while he/she has the title than they can play a tournament. But only MATCH PLAY can decide who is the best in the world. Plus 99% of the chess fans love to watch a match. (at least I do)
I, for one, welcome our new World Champion :),
but I must say, in determining who is morally right in this problem it’s also interesting to know why Kramnik is going to the bathroom so often. If it’s just a tic he can be forgiven, but on the other hand if it’s some kind of psychological wargame against Topalov he is just as wrong as Topalov with his refusal to shake hands.
Both are insane! A simple game, played over a sigle board on a table, with two chairs and two flags and a chess clock. Ade they are fighting over private or public bathrooms? I would share a bathroom with Susan if she would play me for the world championship.
Maybe Topalov refuses to shake hands with Kramnik because he thinks that Kramnik’s handling himself a little too much on all those trips to the bathroom.
DITTO!! chess needs a chess commisioner with the last word in arbitration! this whole mess is a little frustrating and might have been avoided it someone of “last word” authority were on hand
Ms. Susan’s commentary just doesn’t make sense. Focus on the key issue – not on what has been going on from St. Luis onwards. Any way you look at it, Topalov looks disgraceful, dishonest and atrocious. And please do not separate Topalov and Danailov – they are the same. Do you think the letters written by Danailov were not seen and approved by Topalov – give me a break! As for Kramnik’s contribution to the mess, let me ask a simple question – what should he have done so that his name does not figure in the contributors to the mess. Go and play without opening his mouth after all that was perpretrated illegally by Topalov and his delegation? And in what frame of mind? And in a World Championship seeking a single world champion for more than a decade? Ms. Susan – reflect on these issues before putting your pen to the paper. Its easier said than done!