I originally named this thread “Exciting Last Round…” because many of the positions could have resulted in exciting battles. Unfortunately, 8 of the 10 players agreed to draws in less than 20 moves and the other 2 drew in 26 moves.
Please feel free to share your comments:
Ponomariov – Leko 1/2 (19 moves)
Grischuk – Carlsen 1/2 (17 moves)
Gelfand – Aronian 1/2 (16 moves)
Mamedyarov – Svidler 1/2 (14 moves)
Morozevich – Shirov 1/2 (26 moves)
How do you feel about this? As I mentioned many times before, the best way to avoid this quick draw problem is NOT to invite players who are NOT willing to play chess. Players can always find ways to go around rules. Hitting them in their pockets is the best way to combat this problem.
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
Four draws (all but Morozevich – Shirov) before 20 moves.
this tournamnet was a HUGE disappointment- there were only a couple of mildly exciting games- i would say the best one was on rd 1 – aronian-morozevich- other than that, this has been pretty boring- they needed different players in it like i said yesterday- here’s my fantasy 10 player trnmt-
1. carlsen
2. radjabov
3. nakamura
4. morozevich
5. polgar
6. mamedyarov
7. topalov
8. aronian
9. sutovsky
10. anand
pawnstar3:
Right, fantasy Mamedyarov of the 9 draws.
1 word.. it sucks.
Though I am cheering for Leko here
adopt a 20% purse penalty if draw in less than 20 moves, 15% if draw in less than 30 moves, 10% if draw in less than 40.
well of course the last round in the Tal memorial is very disappointing and it would behoove the powers to be in the FIDE to really get started and pass some kind of ruling that would eliminate what just happened in the last round of the Tal memorial it is ridiculous and hurting the image of Chess very much
3 points for a win, one for a draw.. or weight the the points.. i think its been suggested before, fischer maybe, where a victory with black carries more points, give no points for a draw..
What about the MTel rules then?
‘The players should not talk during the games; additionally they should not offer draws directly to their opponents. Draw offers will be allowed only through the Chief Arbiter in three cases: a triple repetition of the position, a perpetual check and in theoretically drawn positions.’
Tal said it is a CRIME against chess to draw with the white pieces.
These players are disgracing the name of Tal under which they are now playing.
We need more players like Judit Polgar and Topalov who’d rather go down in flames than draw.
I agree completely with Susan that we need to hit them in their pocketbooks.
Perhaps more tournaments with Sofia rules (although players can still do 3 fold reps intentionally).
Perhaps rating point hits for intentionally drawing.
Although I wonder what could prevent two players (even without talking to each other) just to repeat three times their moves if they play for draw… but it was not the case at MTel masters, wasn’t it?
They are tired and/or saving themselves for the blitz tournament that starts right away.
Kasparov and Anand were commenting on some of the games, and both were saying that the quality of games was mostly very high.
Susan, don’t pour gasoline on the rabid fans’ flames of anger. They want gladiator show, not chess. There should be respect for elite players’ decisions. Nobody had to pay to watch these games, nobody had to personally support the players, so it’s totally unfair to constantly complain. These are people, not machines. If you want fighting chess on a high level, invest in computers’ championships.
Well, about the draws situation.
The chess is a scaled down version of war. Imagine that you kill or send to be killed half of your army in one day (to say just the openning of the game) and then both sides just decide that’s it, we don’t want more blood, let’s make peace… sounds great doesn’t it?
Moro-Shirov draw in 26.
it takes 2 to tango- if 1 player is playing for a draw but the other isn’t then it won’t necessarily be a draw- both players must be going for a draw for a draw to result most times- the problem is that at a certain level there is not real interest in winning – the top guys don’t want to lose- that’s different from wanting to win – i wouldn’t change the pts system – drawing is a perogative and draws can be even more exciting than wins sometimes- i know that from personal experience even- i also know that i wouldn’t want to devalue the significance of a draw – as a class A player, i sometimes have quick draws in trnmts when i’m in the money- it’s part of the game
No win no pay …
draws no 1/2 point
change format to grand slams
tourneys….
but then the bad guys would lose control of running chess!!
whatever comments people make of topalov, his the only player worth watching because he gives it all he can do best
The time when chess fans became crying for Topalov came too soon …
they should have a ranking of people who makes less draws and make the big money events to be played exclusive to top ten of those guys. corporate sponsors should only support tournament w/ no draw rules. players will still play because it will always have the biggest prize fund. the game is too exclusive for those with good knowledge of the game that such outcomes does not make a good impression on the general public.
won with white = 3 p
Draw white = 1 p
Won with black = 5 p
Draw black = 2 p
win white 3
draw 0
win Black 5
draw 1
Susan, I admire your courage for sharing your opinion on such a controversial subject.
It’s been a long time I’m concerned with this tendency to quick draws in modern chess. Yes, draws are part of the game, but they should be agreed only when no other alternatives are left. Draws are supposed to be the result of a game where both played so well that could not be beaten. But what we see most of the times is that both are playing so dully and without motivation that none could beat the other.
It’s a pity to read some comments of some of your readers who call themselves “A players” agree with this practice. For me, it goes against sport spirit.
As a Brazilian, I could use one example from our national sport. What’s happening is the same as if two teams just stopped attacking each other in a soccer match. How boring that would be?
Shame on them.
paulo vc mora onde? sou cubano-americano mais moro em garanhuns, pernambuco.. vc viu mequinho no torneio iberamericano? pra a idade que ele tem, e impressionante como joga hoje em dia!!
for those who do not read portuguese, i ask paulo where he lives and talk about henrique mecking, known as mequinho, a brasiliam gm who played in the iberoamerican tourney..
This TAL memorial for God’s sake ! These playes shouldn’t have insulted Mikhail Tal like this
how comes Judit was not invited to this tournament? anyway yeah the whole tournament was boring. very few high quality games.
As economic theory states, this problem has a solution. Is just a matter of establishing THE RIGHT INCENTIVES to hit the pockets of the lazy players and reward those of the real stars.
I thought only the last two rounds were disappointing. Overall, the tournament was hard-fought (though not very exciting perhaps), especially compared with similar past events — I remember a supertournament in the 1970s like this in which all but one of the games were drawn.
But when the last round comes and the differences between a draw and a loss is huge, it is hard to blame them for being cautious.
Solution: structure the prizes so that it is worth it for the player to risk going for clear first place (i.e., bonus money)
>This TAL memorial for God’s sake ! >These playes shouldn’t have insulted >Mikhail Tal like this
on the other hand they invited such positional players like Leko, Gelfand,
Aronian and Svidler: what could you expect if not drawish games?
And the soviets don’t collude at chess? LOL!
Susan, based on this last round it looks like all top players want to draw with no sweat (at least sometimes).
In that case, who would play in the tournaments if only fighters are invited? Me?
There is a numerous examples in sports where slight change in the rules changes everything. The only way to change mentality of players is through the system (changing the rules).
The way the sponsors work is the following: Lets make as much promotion as we can and attract more people (to market them some other non chess related products of course).
Nobody relays on people who would pay to watch chess. Money that they bring is not enough anyways.
Therefore, it is always better for organizers to have Kramnik, Leko, etc. (all guys that made quick draws in round 10 of Tal memorial), than have 2600 pts players who will die on the board fighting for a win. They will never attract attention of non chess people.
What i want to say is: Inviting only fighters will not bring more money to sponsors (will not cover their cost), it will only bring some joy to chess fans (but who cares about that small and funny group)
The change must be sistematic and include both factors:
Quality of chess and wide promotion.
So, it has to be change in the rules.
To avoid having too many unfought draws, one might make a win more desireable.
3 points for a win and 1 for a draw might be one possibility. Or a bonus payment for a win might be another possibility.
a win should be a win, if at home (white) or on the road (black). So no different amout of point for a win with black/white.
another interesting idea is to have a rapid or blitz game after a draw, depending on how long the standard game lasted. If before time control than rapid and if after time control blitz descision. Winner of tie-break gets half extra point e.g.
Just a word. Disappointing. And why Curazao comes so easy to my mind…?
There is far too much emphasis placed on winning. A well earned draw is an accomplishment. Unfortunately draws are not always justified but denying a player recognition who has achieved a well earned draw because we choose to be entertained is entering into a convoluted vision
of the traditions of this sport and also supports a false philosopy of life. It is obvious that the final round of the Tal Memorial was unsatisfactory but do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. A well earned draw is a thing of beauty. If we only recognize winning then the esthetics of life will be corroded to about the same degree as if we had capitulated without effort. The struggle is as important as the outcome. That is what determines character. Unfortunately most draws in the Tal Memorial were of a questionable nature but an honest draw is a worthy accomplishnent especially for the defender and she/he should not be forced to blitz out a win/loss result. That really is only statistics and fact is seldom truth.
Everyone knows Tal is rolling in his grave. Too bad the likes of Bronstein, botvinnik, najdorf, etc.. couldn’t participate.